Oopsy doopsy my mistake, sorry, i think there are more benefits to dwellers than allying goblins with dol guldor in smaller games but i wont go off topic in this thread
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| LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=20915 |
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| Author: | TheGoblinTacticus [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Hello, I read Legions Of Middle Earth some days ago and i've a question about allies and about Moria and the Dwellers Below Q1: Can you make chain allies, like allying the army of the dead with lorien by putting one of the fellowship in your army Q2: In LOME stands Moria and the Dwellers Below can't ally, but they both have gobin captains as heroes. If I add 1 captain, can I have units from both armies? TheGoblinTacticus |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
1. All allies must all be legal with each other. If Army A is allied with Army B, then Army C needs to be a legal ally with both A and B for it to join. 2. You can't double-dip on Heroes. Think of each separate list as a standalone force. They each must be legal on their own which means a leader, no more than 33% bows, etc. Once each is a legal entity then they can come together. So you would need a minimum of two heroes. |
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| Author: | TheGoblinTacticus [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Yes i've got 6 captains, but in LOME at moria/ dwellers below stands that they can't ally..... but i've got 6 captains, belonging to both forces. can they ally? but thanks for ur anwers! |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
yes so u can have 3 captains from dwellers and 3 from moria, or 4 from dwellers and 2 from moria, either way works, although if you ally dwellers i recomend you use a wild warg chieftan somewhere... |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 7:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
No, Moria can not ally with the Dwellers Below list. The only reason to take Dwellers Below is to combine goblins with beasts, but you can do the same thing allying Moria with Dol Guldor, which is legal. You just need a Dol Guldor hero, like the Warg Chief, Spider Queen, or a single Orc captain. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:47 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Oopsy doopsy my mistake, sorry, i think there are more benefits to dwellers than allying goblins with dol guldor in smaller games but i wont go off topic in this thread
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
SuicidalMarsbar wrote: Oopsy doopsy my mistake, sorry, i think there are more benefits to dwellers than allying goblins with dol guldor in smaller games but i wont go off topic in this thread Huh?! Two words for you: Durburz, Druzhag. Moria gets both those guys. Hell, Dwellers Below doesn't even get Shamans or Prowlers! Ally Moria with Dol Guldur and you have ANY option that Dwellers Below has, plus many more. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Ok but in smaller games you can have a multitude of wargs and goblins without needing to waste points on another hero to ally the wargs/spiders in. |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
SuicidalMarsbar wrote: Ok but in smaller games you can have a multitude of wargs and goblins without needing to waste points on another hero to ally the wargs/spiders in. How small are we talking here? I've allied Moria and Dol Guldur with Durburz and a Spider Queen as my Heroes in as small a game as 500 points. It was effective, too. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
I mean 300pts, i consider 500pts to be a standard game.... |
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| Author: | Lord Hurin [ Mon Jun 06, 2011 9:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
SuicidalMarsbar wrote: I mean 300pts, i consider 500pts to be a standard game.... In 300pts, I'd say to hell with the Wargs. I can still get over 40 models and 4 Might at that stage by using Goblins alone with Durburz and a Shaman. Captains alone don't cut it. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 2:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
SuicidalMarsbar wrote: I mean 300pts, i consider 500pts to be a standard game.... I don't think alliances work so well at that point level, exactly because you have to spend points on heroes. For 300 points you can get Durburz and 48 goblins (16 shots!), who needs anything else? @TheGoblinTacticus: what army would you like to build, what would it have in it? Maybe we can help you find the right alliances or something close. |
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| Author: | TheGoblinTacticus [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Well, I made Moria/Dwellers below armies (500/750/1000 points) but you say they can't ally. 'cause I wanted spiders and prowlers in 1 army. (if you really need it, I could give the total army list) I'd need the Dwellers and Moria. But why you can't use captains for both armies? I don't like wild wargs, spiders are much better. I could make my 750 and 500 points army without Moria, but my 1000 points army really need both. The only thing is, can dol guldor have Giant Spiders? 'cause then I could make it with dol guldor (guess they can ally with the nazgul) I have to go, school can't wait........ |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Yes, Dol Guldor gives you spiders, and the Spider Queen, probably the best model for her points in the game. Your friends will hate you when you kill Aragorn in one turn, even with his Fate. Dol Guldor has everything Dwellers Below has, except goblins.Quote: But why you can't use captains for both armies? Just because you have captains for an army doesn't mean you can ally the armies. |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 1:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Also, I am not sure if I'm reading something into your posts that you don't intend but there may be some confusion. It seems from a couple things you've posted that you are trying to find a hero / captain on List A that matches a hero / captain on List B and that is part of your ally process (you keep mentioning both lists having the same captain available, for example). That's not necessary. As long as the lists are included in the valid ally box and each list includes at least one hero from that page, then you're all set. You can have the Necromancer leading the Dol Guldur list and a generic captain leading your goblins, for example. If that wasn't what you meant then please just ignore. |
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| Author: | TheGoblinTacticus [ Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:12 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Allright already found my answer, I can just make a Dol Guldor army right? I just have to change 1 goblin captain for a orc captain I guess (will get the point value right)? Thank you. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Well yes you could do that but if you are gonna go dol guldor i think everyone on the site will recommend the spider queen to be your leader, once you have enough money buy her, get her, she is the best model for her points cost, but if you don't/can't buy her for whatever reason an orc captain is fine to lead a dol guldor contingent, but if your leading moria allies with a goblin captain then, for the sake of diversity, use something other than an orc captain to lead the dol guldor force: Spider queen, castellan, wild warg chieftan, even a black guard captain would be a refreshing choice. |
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| Author: | TheGoblinTacticus [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 9:24 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
no i put the queen in my 1000 points army but my other armies are a real swarming army (44 & 74 units) so I want all my heroes cheap. I chose 6 goblin captains because I need them for their stand fast rule, but further I don't use heroes because they take all the points I use for units (I mean, you can have 8 goblins for 1 captain, the goblins would win). The spiders are necessery because they can move fast but they are cheap for their profiles, so I've got 8 of them. In my 1000 point army I've dûrbûrz, a nazgul with upgraded might, will and fate, the spider queen and 3 captains. |
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| Author: | SuicidalMarsbar [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
I see your point but why have cheap heroes if your gonna use 6 of them? You may as well use the more expensive heroes but have fewer of them. You haven't got shamans? If you use a goblin captain for his stand fast then you need a shaman, their fury spells mean you get an instant 6" stand fast, i guarantee taking durburz and a shaman will be infinitely more effective than 6 captains, especially as far as stand fasts go, shaman and durburz combo mean you get a 12" automatic stand fast, 6 captains mean that you still have to take 6 individual courage tests at courage 3, the chances are by this point the heroes have already used some might or will and according to probability 3 captains will fail their tests and flee, losing you 105 points (21 points worth of goblins). I'd argue even a castellan of dol guldor will be more useful than 2 captains. By small i assume you mean 500 points or so, here is a potential list that would work at 500 points. Durburz 60 points shaman 45 points Castellan with morgul blade 70 points 6 giant spiders 150 points 35 goblins 175 points 500 points 50 models, 4 might, instant stand fast, still has less points spent on heroes than 6 goblin captains. |
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| Author: | Beowulf03809 [ Fri Jun 10, 2011 1:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: LotR- chain allies and Moria/Dwellers Below questions |
Be careful with the Castellans as they cannot contribute to Stand Fast or call Heroic actions. Very good at scaring opponents and as Hero/Monster killers but not as leaders. A shaman + major Hero will prove more effective at keeping your forces together for sure. I've seen it in both Goblin and Orc armies many times (even Isengard Uruks to a lesser extent). But because of that leverage, the shaman will be primary target for your opponent. If you afford a second consider it, if not then keep the first very safe. He's worth too much to allow him to get involved in combat. One advantage of having a few extra cheap captains gives is in Heroic Combat. With a swarm force you can surround an enemy with a force to include a Captain, and then call an Heroic Combat, kill the enemy and jump all those swarming little Goblins over to other combats, doubling their effectiveness. One or two well timed Heroic Combats in a game can often tip scales in your favor. Don't go overboard because the extra Goblins you can get for the price of the Captain would be worth at least as much most of the time, but if you have a Shaman + named Hero + 1 or 2 Captains in a large enough force you'll have a lot more flexibility. |
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