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Hand Weapons
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Author:  Highlordell [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Hand Weapons
I know that unless specified in it's entry every model comes with a hand weapon, but what about those with 2 handed weapons?

An example is Uruk Berserkers, in the MoM ruleboook they come with 2 handed weapons, there is no mention of a hand weapon, and it would be awkward lugging a small sword around aswell as a giant sword as tall as yourself. Do Berserkers have hand weapons? It also doesn't mention them being able to use their 2 handed weapons as one handed weapons, but it does in the RoTK manual.

Thanks as usual. :P
Author:  imrail [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 6:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Hmm.. tough question.

did you look at the errata's on the GW site?
Perhaps that will clear some things out.

If it isn't in there, look at the newest rules.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:33 pm ]
Post subject: 
As far as I know, they can be used as hand weapons as I have seen them in one of the magazines (not white dwarf but the battle magazines I think) where a berserker was supported by pikes.
Author:  theavenger001 [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 7:43 pm ]
Post subject: 
It doesn't state that they count as unarmed, or say that they specifically DON'T have a hand weapon, so they have one. 8)
Author:  BlackMist [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 8:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
Quote:
I know that unless specified in it's entry every model comes with a hand weapon, but what about those with 2 handed weapons?

The first half of that sentence is the answer to the second.
Author:  jscottbowman [ Sat Jun 05, 2010 9:53 pm ]
Post subject: 
The berserkers as depicted by PJ in the movies, and sculpted by GW, do no show a hand weapon being carried by the model.

Regardless of what default rules state, I am also inclined to go by WYSIWYG in this case - i.e. no hand weapon.

Whenever I have used berserkers I consider they are only equipped with 2HW.

And yes, they die more often than not...

I tend to think of them more as psychological weapons that the enemy has to deal with and cant ignore. But dont expect them to carry the day for you isolated at the front line.
Author:  whafrog [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:03 am ]
Post subject: 
Berzerkers have hand weapons. Compare the wording of their profile to Clansmen of Lamedon to see the difference.
Author:  Farmer Giles of Ham [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:49 am ]
Post subject: 
hmm... i read somewhere that Berserkers couldnt use their 2h weapons when they use
a torch... so they have to use a dagger.


IMO that means that they only have 2h. Cause you could use a normal sword and a torch
(like Aragorn at the weathertop..)
but thats just my opinion...

edit: found where. In the FAQ of the SGB rulebook

Quote:
A berserker with a flaming brand can`t use his two handed sword. He has to use his dagger.
Author:  jscottbowman [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:53 am ]
Post subject: 
whafrog wrote:
Berzerkers have hand weapons. Compare the wording of their profile to Clansmen of Lamedon to see the difference.


Point taken.

However on the one hand I was just stating my preference / opinion.
I am also inclined to think this may have been an oversight in the rules writers for the berserkers?
Author:  whafrog [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 12:55 pm ]
Post subject: 
jscottbowman wrote:
However on the one hand I was just stating my preference / opinion.


Which was it, your preference or opinion? :) because those are two different things...

Quote:
I am also inclined to think this may have been an oversight in the rules writers for the berserkers?


I'm sure if that were true it would be in the FAQ. Also I'm not sure how many people would take a 15 point model that always gets -1 on its fight roll. Two normal warriors seems a much better deal.
Author:  imrail [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:50 pm ]
Post subject: 
They do have handweapons.
It's that simple.

Unless the profile says they don't have, they have hand weapons.

I guess your question has been answered by all the people above ;)
Author:  Highlordell [ Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:16 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes, if slightly confusingly, I guess they have hand weapons then, okey dokey folks, thanks for your help. 8)
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
I think GW lost some good theme options when they try to equalize things and 'zerks with 1H weapons are a clear point of this for me.

When I personally play them in my Isengard army I use them 2H 100% of the time. They are raging, blood-crazed beasts. I hardly picture them slowing down in the middle of a fight to decide if they are more efficient with their big sword or if they should pull out a dagger. :roll: Watch the scenes of them being raised on ladders to the top of the wall and see how they fight. Yeah, most of those sword swings are wide, slow arcs (that's how our Heroes slip in and kill them), but they are powerful and cut thru anyone unlucky enough to be standing there.

In the game I find that mixing several Berserkers in my force among my sword/shield Uruks more than makes up for the "weakness" while staying true to the imagery PJ gave. The standard Urks can team up with their big brothers and generally win the Fight and the Berserker is almost a guarantee kill. Match one up with an Uruk Captain for even more fun.

I'm not one for most "house rules" mostly because if you play with others you can't be sure how they'll go over, but just because the rules give you an option that you don't agree with doesn't mean you need to take advantage of it. Just because you CAN have your Berserkers fight 1H doesn't mean you ever have to.
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:11 pm ]
Post subject: 
Good points, beowulf
Author:  the director [ Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:32 pm ]
Post subject: 
We have a house rule where i play, Beserkers lose an attack for using a 1h weapon, 1 hand, 1 attack. 2 hands, 2 attacks
Author:  spuds4ever [ Tue Jun 08, 2010 9:41 am ]
Post subject: 
the director wrote:
We have a house rule where i play, Beserkers lose an attack for using a 1h weapon, 1 hand, 1 attack. 2 hands, 2 attacks


Woah :shock: then there is no point in using berserkers with 1 handies.
Author:  imrail [ Tue Jun 08, 2010 10:54 am ]
Post subject: 
spuds4ever wrote:
the director wrote:
We have a house rule where i play, Beserkers lose an attack for using a 1h weapon, 1 hand, 1 attack. 2 hands, 2 attacks


Woah :shock: then there is no point in using berserkers with 1 handies.


No there isn't really.
Just like beowulf said, Berserkers won't stop in the middle of a battle thinking about the weapons they want to use. An 2 meter big sword.. or a dagger.
Author:  MuslimRohirrim [ Wed Jun 09, 2010 2:47 pm ]
Post subject: 
As long as it's stated in the unit profile that they have hand weapons in their wargear, I always play that they can decide to use either. and yes they are trained to switch between them in the middle of the battle, without needing to think about it as it became their second nature!!

I use MoM manual too and I don't see hand weapon in Berserker's wargear so that's why they can only use 2H weapon in my book, working ok both thematic and rule wise.

IMHO the 2H units already not allowed to carry shields so why tax them more, and that's clearly stated in the rules that they can use either weapon. if played otherwise in GW games (can't safely take all what's in their) or any other game, I consider it a house rule or scenario special rule.
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