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Shields and elf blades
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Author:  Something Wicked [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 5:35 am ]
Post subject:  Shields and elf blades
Hi,

This looks like the right place to ask silly questions. :)

I had about a 10 year break from the game, and reading through the Hobbit book, I have a query. Hope you can help.

Under "Shields" on p75 Hobbit, it says...
"Cumbersome: A model can only use an elven blade as a single-handed weapon if it also carries a shield."

So, um, can a model sling the shield over his back and fight with both hands on the blade in a fight? Or does having a shield at all, mean the blade can never be used two handed?

If a model has several weapons, can we just pick which combination it uses in each fight?

Thanks.
Author:  Paradigm [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
I'm 99% sure that 'carrying' a shield means just having one, so no 2-handing with the EB if you have a shield (and therefore very little point taking an EB on a model with a shield).

As for the second part, you can only ever use 1 weapon at a time, which can be the hand weapon every model has, any other weapon (2-hander, EB, Spear/Pike ect) or Shield*

*as in actually using the Shielding rule, the +1 Defence always applies unless you are also carrying a bow, 2-handed weapon or pike.
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
If I were king of the world, if you slung the shield on your back (reduced your def by 1) i dont see why you couldnt. However, that is the role player in me and not the rules lawyer.
Author:  Eoher [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
I had the same question when I got back in to the game.

The reason for taking an Elven Blade and a shield is the same for taking one without a shield. Models with elven blades win tied fight roll offs on a 3+ rather than a 4+.

Every profile that isn't specified as 'unarmed' gets a hand weapon for free, so if you take a 2 handed weapon, you use you base weapon if you choose. This basically gave everybody the old lotr Elven Blade rule for free, so they created the rule above.
Author:  Galanur [ Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
Eoher wrote:
I had the same question when I got back in to the game.

The reason for taking an Elven Blade and a shield is the same for taking one without a shield. Models with elven blades win tied fight roll offs on a 3+ rather than a 4+.

Every profile that isn't specified as 'unarmed' gets a hand weapon for free, so if you take a 2 handed weapon, you use you base weapon if you choose. This basically gave everybody the old lotr Elven Blade rule for free, so they created the rule above.




correction, elven blades you pay for em mind you so no free hand weapon model cant take elven blades
Author:  Something Wicked [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:59 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
Thanks guys.

When I racked my brain for an example of a character with shield and bow, I came up with Lurtz.

I looked him up, and he doesn't get the defense bonus in his profile for having a shield, so I came to the conclusion that not getting the bonus is indeed a thing.
I didn't know that. I was totally a detective. :)

Being equipped with a bow or two handed weapon, means that just "owning" a shield means the model can use it less well. It doesn't have to make sense, it is just a thing in the rules, and that's how it is. Now I know.

(I now notice several threads here about Lurtz' profile, hehehe)

Of course models with shields and bows/2handers can still use "shielding", but I was scratching my head a bit when comparing banners with shield rules. "Encumbered" from having a shield is very different to the encumbrance of having a banner. Yes, elf blades still split drawn fights, which is something... Cool.

So, if a models are equipped with a hand weapon as standard, but also have a two handed weapon or bow (for some reason, hypothetically), and a shield... they can never get +1 defense for the shield. Even if they use hand weapon and shield in a fight, they can't gain +1 defense. Even if they are being shot at, they don't get +1 Defense.

This was indeed the right place to post my silly question. SBG is not an RPG.
It's a fun game. It is what it is, it's fine, and it is small.

"That doesn't make sense to me, but then again, you are very small." :-D
Author:  Something Wicked [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
Galanur wrote:
correction, elven blades you pay for em mind you so no free hand weapon model cant take elven blades


I don't know what this means, sorry.

Can say, an Uruk-Hai Berserker choose to use a knife or something, instead of the two handed weapon they come with?

If a model comes with a hand weapon, and they have purchased a two handed weapon, can they just decide in each fight, which weapon they use?

Cheers for the replies! :)
Author:  J.R. [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:29 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
Something Wicked wrote:
Galanur wrote:
correction, elven blades you pay for em mind you so no free hand weapon model cant take elven blades


I don't know what this means, sorry.

Can say, an Uruk-Hai Berserker choose to use a knife or something, instead of the two handed weapon they come with?

If a model comes with a hand weapon, and they have purchased a two handed weapon, can they just decide in each fight, which weapon they use?

Cheers for the replies! :)


Yes an uruk berserker can choose to fight one handed.
what was meant with 'free elven blade' was that from now one every model with a two handed weapon can also choose to use a normal weapon. before the new rules this was eclusivly reserved for elven blades which could be used one and two handed. now not so special anymore. But to make it worthwhile to buy an elven blade ( all warriors incl. elves have a normal hand weapon unless stated as unarmed) there is the extra rule that in tied fight the model with an elven blade wins it on 3+ instead of the 50/50 change (4+) others get.
Author:  Galanur [ Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:54 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
when I have the points, elven blades are normally worth it, specially if you got shields.

Although the blades got 2 fighting styles, having a shield is not a bad option at all, like was mentioned above, elves with elven blade win tied up combats on a 3+, which can be further enhance this effect if the elf (regular soldier) got a shield and decide to shield. Suddently regular elven warriors fight with 2A equally to most captains out there. And despite thye cannot strike back, against foes with fight 5, they get a considerable advantage.

Palace Guards with shield nearby thranduil for example are an excelent example of a good defensive soldier on foot.
Although not having HUGE defence value like dwarves, these D6 soldiery (payed for shield) combined with an already equipped elven blade and fight 6 surrounding their king can tie up big heroes like aragorn and boromir, yes a 15 pts guy with shielding option can give a serious block wall endevour, also against other things, like monstrous cave trolls :P
Author:  Something Wicked [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
Excellent. Thanks for clearing this up for me guys, and thanks for the advice. :)

In the only game I've played in recent times, an Isenguard troll invented a new sport called elf bowling. Select an high elf, pick him up, and treat other elves as pins...
I didn't even wound it over the game, so I went and bought myself some shield/spear models and Gil. It bugs me a bit that Gil was already deceased by the time Isenguard armies were a thing, but I do want to try some monster hunting.
Author:  Galanur [ Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Shields and elf blades
Ohh dont worry, its pretty common for monsters to do that, last 1250pts game I fought with 40 gundabad, 24 hunter orcs, 22 goblin town goblins + 2 gundabad captains, 1 goblin town captain, azog, mordor troll chieftain and a mordor troll vs like 111 dwarves. Both trolls push at same time against a full big group of dwarves (40 ish) supported by goblins and hunter orcs, they wreck havock on the stumpies (dwarves) by picking them up and throwing deep inside their ranks (2/3 dies from the throwing slam + the model that has been thrown)
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