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Hi (and a few rules questions!)
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=29400		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  YOrcShire [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 9:48 am ]
Post subject:  Hi (and a few rules questions!)
Hi all

Fairly new player here, having bought the EFGT set back in January with my son. Really enjoying the painting side of the hobby as well as the gaming. The two of us have played regularly between us over the last 8 months (mainly scenarios from the box set and a few made up scenarios). Have recently decided to start to expand beyond the EFGT box set as I have almost finished painting everything (just Dori, Gloin and Radagast to go) and we wanted some more ‘regular’ good warriors to take on the goblins so we don’t just have heroes. So I have recently bought the full rulebook, then a box of Grim Hammers (local GW recommendation). I have also discovered this site which has taught me a lot and is really interesting (I know many of you think the GHs are overpriced in terms of points but I really like the sculpts and I don’t need to be ‘tournament competitive’). Anyway, that’s a little background but I was hoping for some specific rule guidance/clarification based on a couple of questions which have come about after playing some more battles (mainly with the GHs). I have searched for these answers but without success so apologies if they have already been covered.

1) General question – If you are playing on scenery with some shear drops, such as Goblin Town, how much of the models base needs to ‘off the edge’ for the model to be deemed as ‘fallen over the edge’? Also, if there is room to ‘back away’ but not the full inch i.e. classed as ‘trapped’ and you survive the strikes, are you forced to continue ‘over the edge’? The example in the rule book shows Bomber (IIRC) doing this but he was already right on the edge.

2) Grim Hammers – I assume they have the option of fighting one handed, is this correct? If so I also assume they cannot make special strikes as there is no single handed weapon modelled on them. Again, I am guessing the axes modelled represent the throwing weapon!

3) Grim Hammers – If you have 2 GHs against 1 evil model. If one GH elects to bash and one does not and they win the duel roll, can I elect to resolve the bash strike first (and knock the opponent prone) and then resolve the other strike? If so I assume it is the GHs player who chooses the order (as opposed to the player with priority).

4) General question – If you fail a courage test to charge a model with ‘terror’ I understand that your move phase is over, for that model. But can the model then shoot in the shoot phase or is he too ‘terrified’ to do so. It doesn’t ‘feel right’ to let him shoot but I don’t think I can find a rule to prevent this.

5) Radagast/Magic – I believe one of Radgast’s special rules is that he has Line of Sight anywhere (don’t have the rules at hand but think its something like ‘at one with birds’). I understand that to cast magic you effectively use the same rules as missile weapons. Clearly missile weapons cannot bend round corners or through solid structures (buildings), but can magic? So can Radagast cast a spell on a model at the other side of a high wall (taller than the two models) as he has got LoS? I’m guessing not but it is magic!

Sorry for the long winded first post, hope these questions are not too silly!

Thanks
Author:  Gwaryan [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
Hey, welcome to the forum. I'm sure your love for the hobby is just going to keep growing the longer you spend here :D

In answer to your questions...
1. For me a model is over the edge when it can no longer balance on the edge, so usually if more than half the base is in mid-air it cannot be said to be on the edge as the model itself will fall. If you survive a trapped strike you don't need to keep moving back, it's your opponent's job to move back.
2. Yes Grimhammers can fight one handed. I'm not sure whether they can use their hammers with one hand and special strike through, someone else will have to give you feedback on that question.
3. Yes you can do that :D
4. Bit of a tricky one. Personally I'd say no he can't shoot, if he can move no further that implies that he's used his full move, which renders shooting impossible.
5. Yes he can :)

Hope that helped with your questions, and once again welcome to the forum :D
Author:  JamesR [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 2:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
Welcome to the One Ring!

As to your questions:
1. if the model is forced over the edge at all they fall. You always need your base's area to be able to stand anywhere.

2.Grimhammers do have regular hand weapons but may not special strike with them

3.Yes you can, you resolve strikes in whatever order you choose

4.He cannot shoot as he has lost his move entirely (so in effect he's moved his full distance)

5. Yes, otherwise that special would be worthless
Author:  Dr Grant [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
Welcome to the site! You've posed some good questions and had some good answers but thought I'd chip in too!

1) The simplest thing to say is that you can stand on the edge as long as you can place the model on the edge. If you're beign strict with the rule that you need to back away a full inch then yes, in your example Bombur would go over the edge.

2) Rules as Intended it's very clear, like every model they have a hand weapon but they can't special strike with it as you don't know what it is. Like you say, the small axes are obviously meant to be their throwing axes. However, certain players would argue that there's nothing to say that's not just a small axe hand weapon and so it would be hard to prevent someone from special striking with it. That's up to you to decide what kind of player you want to be though :-)

3) The common consensus is that you can indeed to this, it's how the game has commonly been played: P.43 of the rulebook states that in a multiple combat "the winners each make their strikes against the loser in an order chosen by the winners' controlling player". It's a good tactic, it works well when fighting cavalry models too, kill the horse, rider might be prone = double strikes etc.

I recently heard someone say that somewhere the rulebook states that all strikes count as being resolved at the same time which would overrule this - I can't seem to find the sentence though

4) This is tricky - whilst I can see where JamesR and Gwaryan are coming from I think he can shoot. Failing a Terror test states the model can't move, it doesn't say he counts as having used all his move. Similarly, the Shooting rules specifically state that you can't shoot if you have failed a Jump, Leap, Climb or Swim test or if you are Prone. It makes no mention of failing a Terror test. Similarly, if a model is in range of a Heroic Move but can't finish their move within 6" of the Hero or that chooses not to move as part of the Heroic Action, then they can't move for the turn (just like a model that failed a Terror test), can they shoot? I'd say yes again. Definitely a grey area though.

5) Yep, he can cast at anyone within range, if only he had Sorcerous Blast! :-)

No need to apologise for the post, much better to ask a bunch of questions together than to start 5 threads! :-)
Author:  SouthernDunedain [ Tue Sep 09, 2014 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
Quote:
I recently heard someone say that somewhere the rulebook states that all strikes count as being resolved at the same time which would overrule this - I can't seem to find the sentence though


Pg 53 my friend.

If the mount is slain, after all attacks against the mount and rider have been resolved, the rider must roll on the thrown rider table.

Took me a while to find it aswell.
Author:  JamesR [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 6:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
That doesn't mean all strikes occur in any specific order. Only that a rider isn't thrown until the combat is over
Author:  YOrcShire [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
Thanks everyone for the great feedback and welcomes. It is comforting to know that even experienced players find 'grey areas' in the rules. I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions in future but for now I'm busy painting up the Grim Hammers then should be able to put some of this new knowledge into practice at the weekend. :)
Author:  Hodush [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
I agree with JamesR on this one, however, I can clearly see what you mean about the order.
If they were knocked prone or whatever rolling a 1 is called, then you would have double strikes. So the thrown rider is resolved after all rolls to wound.

In terms of Bash, its a different thing, the rulebook just says that Special Strikes are in place of the to wound roll and not given an order, so its fine to bash first then roll to wound with other models. It is not fine to roll for the thrown rider, GBHL seems to have missed this one but nobody is perfect ;)
Author:  YOrcShire [ Wed Sep 10, 2014 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Hi (and a few rules questions!)
Thanks all, for the replies and welcomes. It's comforting to know that even the experienced players find 'grey areas' in the rules too. I'm sure I'll have plenty more questions in future. For now I'm busy painting the Grim Hammers but will hopefully be able to put some of my new knowledge into practice at the weekend. :)
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