The One Ring
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/

Legions of middle earth, SBG, War of the ring different how?
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=20580		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Ceolwin of Rohan [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Legions of middle earth, SBG, War of the ring different how?
Hey guys wonder if you could help me out. I want to know the difference between the three things mentioned in the title of this post. Namely:

Legions of Middle Earth
War of the Ring
Strategy Battle Game

Also I would like to know how you go about creating scenarios for the SBG as I am finding it difficult to balance them using the points values alone.
For example Gimli is the same points cost as 10 goblins (this is a rough example points are prolly not correct but it will illustrate my point well enough) yet I made a scenario based on this and Gimli got battered very quickly. how do I balance the scenarios a bit better?
Author:  BlackMist [ Sun Apr 10, 2011 7:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Legions of middle earth, SBG, War of the ring different
Legions of Middle Earth is an expansion to Strategy Battle Game. It is the same thing, except it contains 12 scenarios and to an extent balanced armylists used in most big tournaments.

War of the Ring is a different game system. It uses the same model but puts them in movement trays and fights with x times larger number of models. Both SBG and WotR are explained on the GW website.

About scenarios - it's not about throwing Gimli against 10 goblins or so. It's about having 2 armies fight against each other. The standard Grand Tournament point level is 700 at the moment, so you would have gimli and over 600 points of other stuff in your army. Once you get a full army, that's where the game is balanced. It's pointless throwing 1 model against 10 because usually the 10 will win and there's no tactics involved, it's just plain rolling dice. If you have let's say 250 points game, so Gimli and for example 20 Dwarves against Durburz and 40 goblins, that's where you'll see that it's more balanced.
Author:  Dagorlad [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Legions of middle earth, SBG, War of the ring different
The Strategy Battle Game (SBG) is a skirmish-level game, aimed at small to mid-sized battles - originally intended as a scenario-based game, it has evolved into a points-based 'bring and battle' game. The 'Legions of Middle Earth' book (LOME) supports this concept by providing lists of valid army combinations, legal alliances, and tournament-specific constraints.

The War of the Ring (WOTR) is a separate game designed for large army battles. It uses many of the same concepts as the SBG but is streamlined for mass combat.

Scenario design is a 'mysterious art' that takes a bit of skill. Having two equal-points forces attack each other is probably the most basic of scenarios. But it's not just the point size that makes a game balanced, it includes the number of figures on the table (due to the courage rules), the relative movement speeds (cavalry vs infantry), and the amount of heroes per side (Might points are often a game decider). Terrain also plays a factor in balancing a game, since one side may have an advantage with cover or line-of-sight. You need to take into account all of the rules when designing a game. For example, I designed a scenario where a force had to capture a ruin at the top of a hill. The hill was surrounded by tangled forest that slowed down the attackers and caused choke points for moveemnt. My first game was played against wood elves who don't get impaired by movement through forests so they charged straight up the hill!!! Back to the drawing board.

The thing to do is to work out the objective of the scenario first, and then determine the sort/size of forces the attacker and defender might need. Try not to introduce any random element to it at first (e.g. if a 6 is rolled, reinforcements arrive) because that can often hide an inherent imbalance to the scenario design. The scenario must be winnable for both sides too. It can be incredibly challenging for a player to win for one side, but there must be a way of doing it that doesn't rely on too much luck otherwise there's no fun to be had playing.

And then playtest it several times with different people.
Author:  Ceolwin of Rohan [ Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Legions of middle earth, SBG, War of the ring different
Thanks for the help Dagorlad, I've got more of a handle on things now :D
Author:  Hydraface [ Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Legions of middle earth, SBG, War of the ring different
This a copy of a reply I made to someone asking about the diff between LotR/WotR, found udner 'Returning to the King' in Army help.

"War of the Ring is a much larger scale game than LotR. LotR is a skirmish game in which singular models move, fight and act individually, and may feature perhaps several dozen individual models max in a game. WotR pits entire armies against each other, and models move in formations, or large groups. The tactics and gameplay for both are totally different, and there's a set of rules for each game. However, the models, scale, scenery etc. Are still the same; you can play both games with the same models.

I have little experience of LotR, but I did find it fun. WotR appeals to me personally because I love that huge scale carnage! On the surface, it may look like a game of WotR and Warhammer Fantasy Battle (WFB) are similar; you'd see regiments of troops moving and wheeling around, before rolling to charge into combat. For my money, WotR is the superior game. The turn structure (one player moves, then the other moves, the first player shoots, then the second player shoots and so on) is much more engaging; it keeps both players in the game at all times, rather than present a large stretch in which you can do nothing while your opponent takes his turn. Also, I think the more 'realisitc' look of the models is very appealing in WotR. Finally, the game mechanics are in some ways simpler; there are no 'to hit' rolls, 'to wound' rolls or saving throws. Skill determines how many dice you get in an attack, Strength vs Defence (I.E. Toughness) determines what your formation needs to roll to get kills. That simple. It's surprising how much it speeds up the game not having to roll three sets of dice per combat, and it keeps things snappy and streamlined so you can focus on tactics rather than mental mathematics.

Once you understand the basics, it's a case of picking up the very streamlined but tactically nuanced magic phase, and the myriad special rules that season the units and the game.

Finally, the way in which you build an army is very simple, but probably much more functional and fun than pretty much any other game I can think of. The genius is the allies rule which allows you to mix n' match units from other armies with ease, which helps reduce 'army regret', and allow you to use any models or characters from another army (within reason).

Some criticisms abound, mostly regading game balance. Some units (Ringwraiths, Gothmog, Crossbows and a few others) are considered somewhat over-powered, under-priced or both. For the most part, in the dozen or so games I've played, I've not found these common issues to be game-breaking spoilers, but you may find yourself tweaking things with the odd house-rule.

If you're looking at getting into WotR, a great way would be to peruse the Battlehosts expansion. A Battlehost is a formation of particular units, lead by a particular hero (or heroes). When collected in this way, the units are imbued with unique abilities and rules. I started off collecting The Scouts of Saruman, the force of Uruk Hai Scouts lead by Lurtz who slay Boromir and steal away Merry and Pippin.!
Page 1 of 1 All times are UTC
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/