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Small request-Starting army
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=46&t=18764		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Knight-of-the-Dark [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Small request-Starting army
So I am looking at starting LoTR since my local hobby shop is holding a 600 pt tourney at the end of the summer and cause a lot of my 40k friends also play this. I have managed to get in one practice game along with borrow the Legions of Middle-Earth book as well as the official Rulebook. Now i am hoping someone can help me with regards to a relatively inexpensive army that will be reasonably decent in this kinda setting. Here was what I was kinda looking at this with regards to an army just wondering what everyone thought. I am very very open to suggestions. ^^

Gothmog w/ Warg and shield
Morgal Knight (6)
Orc Captain w/ Warg and shield
Warg riders (5) 2 with bows 2 with shields and throwing spears 1 with just a shield
Morannon Orc (12) with Spear and Shield
Morannon Orc (12) with Hand weapon and Shields

Comes to 598 pts. I don't really like swarm armies but i can see the big need for having numerous models after my practice game using Urikai vs Moria went poorly little tiny gobo's ripping my big Urikai to shreds :( 48 little goblins and a troll were surprisingly painful at 350. So thanks for looking and helping ^^

-edit- Theme may or may not be important so keep that in mind :)
Also i forgot to say why i chose this...originaly i was looking at a minas morgal army since I really wanted to play with a ringwraith but the more I looked at it the more i struggled to feel that at 600 pts i wouldn't be horribly out numbered all of the time. I also found out ringwraiths are not all that tough and are more of mage support.
Author:  Azrael [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:45 am ]
Post subject: 
In my opinion you got to much cavalry/elites... Add at least some usual orcs that you can use as meatshields or to bind thugs. And i'd add a mordor-troll at that point-limit. Also consider to take a ring-wraith in your force - they are very useful against heros. A shaman will also help your orcs alot.
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:01 am ]
Post subject: 
Those 5 wargs are indeed a little bit waste of points as you are kinda low on numbers...

but before I start to give you advice or any ideas on changes I want to ask you , do you really want to play with Black numenoreans and Knights? Cause I would have suggested Shagrath the War Leader, who is cheaper than Gothmog, and more effective in battle, but then again the army restrictions might be a complication here...
Author:  Knight-of-the-Dark [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Hmmm well i do like the knights from a look and price stand point not so much the Black numenoreans warriors i am not that partial to the wargs or Gothmog but just was trying to get a cool mix thus my questioning ^^ advice away but also try to throw out numbers of things rather then leaving it to me cause i don't know what a good number is for things yet. Like try for x goblins and blah hehe rather then you need more XD
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 10:37 am ]
Post subject: 
Well if you want Knights and Morrannon orcs then heres is how gonna be...
But firstly , the regular basic orcs, are the core of any mordor army, not to forget this.

so I would do like

#Minas Morgul#
Black Numenorean Marshal (with shield and armored horse)-80pts
6xMorgul Knights-120pts

#Barad-Dur#
Morrannon orc cap. (with shield)-50pts
24xOrcs warriors (with weapons)-144pts
24xMorannon orcs-204pts

Total:56
Break point(50%):28
Bows: you can include up to 16 bows into Barad-Dur army list...
Might:4
(and you still have 2 pts. left over till 600pts)
Not a bad army, although i never leave home without a Ringwraith, but this is not the case this time. Also if you want to you could replace the Morannon orc cap. with an Orc taskmaster as then you can have significantly more heroic moves and fights called (and believe me they are very very decisive when used properly)


With Mordor and Goblins it´s always important to try to aim at max numbers as possible...

I am not saying that you should play with such an army, it´s just what i would, do if I´d were you, but I do believe that pretty soon you will understand the usefulness of a Ringwraith on the battle field :rofl:
Author:  imrail [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:34 am ]
Post subject: 
Although orcs arn't good archers, it might be usefull to get some orc archers. Perhaps some stalkers?
Author:  Farmer Maggot [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 12:56 pm ]
Post subject: 
Here is what I'd suggest:

Minas Morgul
Black Numenorean Marshal with shield and armoured horse (80)
5 Morgul Knights (100)

Barad-Dur
Orc Shaman (50)
Morannon Orc Captain (45)
12 Morannon Orcs with shield (96)
12 Morannon Orcs with spear and shield (108)
4 Orc Warriors with Orc bow (24)
8 Orc Warriors with spear (48)
4 Orc Warriors with shield (24)
4 Orc Warriors with two-handed weapon (24)

599 points; 52 models

It means you only need to buy 1 box of Morgul Knights, 1 Box of Morannon Orc Commanders, 1 box of Morannon Orcs and 1 Box of Mordor Orcs. You might also need a blister of Black Numanoreons in case any of the knights lose their horses.
Author:  imrail [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 7:06 pm ]
Post subject: 
Farmer Maggot wrote:
Here is what I'd suggest:

Minas Morgul
Black Numenorean Marshal with shield and armoured horse (80)
5 Morgul Knights (100)

Barad-Dur
Orc Shaman (50)
Morannon Orc Captain (45)
12 Morannon Orcs with shield (96)
12 Morannon Orcs with spear and shield (108)
4 Orc Warriors with Orc bow (24)
8 Orc Warriors with spear (48)
4 Orc Warriors with shield (24)
4 Orc Warriors with two-handed weapon (24)

599 points; 52 models

It means you only need to buy 1 box of Morgul Knights, 1 Box of Morannon Orc Commanders, 1 box of Morannon Orcs and 1 Box of Mordor Orcs. You might also need a blister of Black Numanoreons in case any of the knights lose their horses.


Again very few archers.
Although a lot of numbers, how about dropping around 8 Morannon orcs and get a couple of archers instead of those.
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:13 pm ]
Post subject: 
Well as I said , might as well get 13 trackers... :rofl:
Author:  Farmer Maggot [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:24 pm ]
Post subject: 
The low number of archers in my list was to keep the cost down. A box or Mordor Orcs only includes 4 archers and adding trackers are quite expensive.

I tend to find that Orc archers are not great, but are useful for lucky shots to take out horses or supporting models.
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 8:54 pm ]
Post subject: 
But if you use only Trackers the you can use "orc warriors with bows" count as trackers. ever thought of that? :rofl:
Author:  Farmer Maggot [ Mon Jun 14, 2010 9:03 pm ]
Post subject: 
Using Orcs with bows as trackers is fine in friendly games, but tournaments are often more strict about not allowing "counts as" for warriors that do actually have models.
Author:  Mouth-of-Sauron [ Tue Jun 15, 2010 7:04 pm ]
Post subject: 
yeah? Hmm interesting... well then my bad :rofl:
Author:  spuds4ever [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 6:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Farmer Maggot wrote:
Using Orcs with bows as trackers is fine in friendly games, but tournaments are often more strict about not allowing "counts as" for warriors that do actually have models.


Could always convert some of the archers into trackers. Anyway, I think that no mordor army >400 pts. is complete without a nazgul. Here is my suggestion.

Ringwraiths:

Heroes:
Shadow lord on dark steed-135pts.

Minas Morgul:

Heroes:
Mordor orc shaman-45pts.

Elites:
6 Morgul knights-120pts.
5 Barad-dur guard-60pts.

Warriors:
24 Morranon orcs, 12 shields, 6 spears, 6 spears & shields-198pts.
5 Mordor orcs with spears-30pts.
1 Mordor orc with banner-30pts.


total: 598pts. models: 34 (I know, not a lot) might: 3 bows: 0 (dosen't matter too much IMO in a mordor army.)

Rock-hard army. Not many troops but very hard-hitting. The enemy will find it very hard to charge and shoot at your morgul knights as the shadow lord will auto -1 courage to the enemy so you can virtually pick your targets. The shield wall of morranon orcs and BG is incredibly tough with 2 attacks each (for spears) and 3 if they are in range of the banner. All your troops will nearly always be needing 4+ or 5+ max (unless you're against dwarves) to wound but if you ever get in a pickle you can always shield (which is often over-looked).

Just my 2 cents.
Author:  Beowulf03809 [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 8:19 pm ]
Post subject: 
From the local and GW-sponsored events I've participated in as long as you're not using the same model to represent more than one type of warrior in your own army you're fine with "use as". So if you have NO Orc Warriors with Bows, only Orc Trackers, then you should have no issue from the tournament officials or your opponents if you make it clear up front that "All Orc models with Bows are Orc Trackers".

This is especially helpful in WotR where your model count gets high fast (since all infantry comes in 8s).

Now if you do want to have both for some reason then you're going to have a harder time in anything official unless it is VERY, VERY clear (all bases of one painted blue, all bases of the other painted red for example).
Author:  isengard owns [ Wed Jun 16, 2010 9:07 pm ]
Post subject: 
one thing about your army spudsforever. you don't have a hard hitting hero.. your best fighting hero is a nazgul. i would add a morranon orc captain for some fighting skills.
Author:  imrail [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 4:50 am ]
Post subject: 
isengard owns wrote:
one thing about your army spudsforever. you don't have a hard hitting hero.. your best fighting hero is a nazgul. i would add a morranon orc captain for some fighting skills.


A Nazgul isn't a fighting hero, A Nazgul is a sorcerer.
The Morgul Knights are the elite who will hit the enemy hard.
Author:  isengard owns [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 12:37 pm ]
Post subject: 
thats what i was saying. the nazgul shouldn't be his best fighting hero.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:21 pm ]
Post subject: 
isengard owns wrote:
thats what i was saying. the nazgul shouldn't be his best fighting hero.


Not really looking for a superior fighting hero. The shadow lord+the morgul knights should be able to take out enemy heroes in a nasty 1-2 combo. Looking more for troop superiority. It's hard to fit a nazgul and an uber-fighter in the same army in only 600pts. when using mostly elites.
Author:  Highlordell [ Thu Jun 17, 2010 5:22 pm ]
Post subject: 
Yes I agree, your Black Guard are nearly Heroes in their own right, and as for Heroes other benefits like Stand Fast!; the Shaman will sort that out with fury and The DarK Marshall has high courage anyway, plus you are effectivley getting a banner for free.

Spuds4ever, that army list is great IMO; you really don't need a *fighty* Hero.
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