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High Elf Warrior!
https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=32472		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  awesomeshotdude [ Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:00 am ]
Post subject:  High Elf Warrior!
I'm just starting to put together some models for an Eregion and Rivendell Force and am wondering if it is worthwhile having High Elf Warriors with both an Elven Blade and a Shield? Do people often choose this selection of wargear options so that they can switch between using the Elven Blade two-handed to fight more offensively or to use it one-handed with the shield to fight more defensively? Is it worth the extra point per model to have this option?

Would the best way to represent this on the model simply to be to glue the shield to the models back?

Cheers for any help or advice offered :)
Author:  Scib [ Sun Sep 25, 2016 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
Personally I think either go one or the other, your troops are expensive enough as it is
Author:  Commissariat [ Sun Sep 25, 2016 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
The shield prevents two handing which kills half of the sword, not sure how much you two-hand though. I do it a lot! However, since you would be unable to two-hand you effectively waste the point except when your warriors are piling on high fight value (5) heroes.
Author:  Galanur [ Sun Sep 25, 2016 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
I hardly do two handed unless im outnumbering. Even despite having F5 doesn´t mean your combat winning proof and having that -1 to win combat takes a major tool anytime I lose a fight. If i want to kill I leave that job to shooting, heroes and knights. My high elves with shields are mostly there to hold the line buying my heroes time.
Author:  polywags [ Mon Sep 26, 2016 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
Yeah I think the blade is almost never worth it unless you need a couple extra points to fill out your list. Fighting two handed is so dangerous, especially with elves, ESPECIALLY high elves, are always going to be out numbered getting a minus one to your roll is scary and you're always going to be pinched for points since your troops and your heroes are super expensive. With elves I feel like you almost always are shielding with your troops and then chopping through as much as possible with your heroes.
Author:  awesomeshotdude [ Mon Sep 26, 2016 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
Thanks for all the replies guys, much appreciated.

Just to confirm...am I correct in saying that if I chose to, I could equip a High Elf Warrior with an Elven Blade and a Shield, and at the beginning of each Fight, choose whether the model was using the Elven Blade with two hands OR using the Elven Blade with one hand whilst using the Shield in the other hand?
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Mon Sep 26, 2016 12:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
You know, I think I tired to make the same argument once too but I don't believe it was possible to have a shield equipped and still use a weapon 2-handed. Though I might be remembering from an older set of rules.
Author:  Commissariat [ Mon Sep 26, 2016 2:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
To quote from the Hobbit SBG rulebook:

"A model using a two-handed weapon in combat may not use a shield at the same time (not enough hands), although they may still carry other items (slung on their backs or in packs)."

It is fuzzy and an argument could be made in your favour, however the second half states "may still carry" as if they were talking about even having both on the model at the same time. This follows the pattern of bows/shield in that if you have both you cannot claim +1 defense at all, only shielding. However, instead of forgoing +1 defense you just can't have the shield.

Now, the GBHL FAQ does include a question which permits having an elven blade with a shield. This is probably due to the fact that an elven blade is a one-handed weapon by default and when is strictly treated as such may be used with a shield.

Strategy Battle Game has mostly gone in favour of simplicity over technicalities. This is why they never incorporated "I have the shield on my back, but then take it out sometimes" rules since it effected actual stats and these changes would have to be remembered and risked forgetting, but they allowed spears+bows to work because it was simple as day to comprehend.
Author:  Galanur [ Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
People complicate so much.

Shield rules:Cumbersome... that´s all you need to know about shields and elven blades...

In personnal opinion I do still think it´s worth taking an elven blade with a shield. It may not seem a huge diference at 1st but it is... and a BIG one.
Elven blades dont only offer you the 1handed or 2handed pattern, it also tip the balance of tie up combats in your favour, that is a great thing to have. (the upgrade just cost 1pt in most cases, for a thing that would give another point for free if you use two handed variaton, stilll it will pay off that point spend if you manage to win tie ups).

Just like Polywags mentioned and quoting: " Fighting two handed is so dangerous, especially with elves, ESPECIALLY high elves, are always going to be out numbered getting a minus one to your roll is scary and you're always going to be pinched for points since your troops and your heroes are super expensive. "

Having those elven blades will tip the fights towards your side, as vast majority of the good random heroes are around Fight 5, pulling those ties in your favour will make your oponent to be hurried about sticking with these elves in a brawl, even worst the King´s Guards.
These beasties can not only tie up big heroes like Aragorn in combat or even monsters like Cave Trolls, but also will gain a slight in favour to win fights towards your side. A King´s Guard Shielding with 2A with a slight tip on favour for tie up combats its a considerable nasty foe to face for any heroe out there, this is a great boon to an already outnumbered army.
Author:  Zanick [ Tue May 23, 2017 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
Sorry for the bump. I was pondering how to make 2H elven blades worth it, and I think there is a viable use wherein I can pair up a blade with a spear/shield and have the latter use the shielding rule, doubling his chances of winning the fight, while the 2H moves in for the kill once that's done. I think it makes more sense to do this after you've already picked off more than a few enemies with archery, but with some smart footwork I can see this being very effective.
Author:  Scib [ Mon May 29, 2017 5:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
I think you will need to outnumber the foe in each fight to make the most of them, combining them with regular troops to win the fight and then the two-handed blades to get the wounds in against tough models such as trolls.

Magic may be a way to do this ? Aura of dismay with Cirdan to reduce the amount of models that can counter charge or perhaps combining it with natures wrath from Arwen or Elrond are some ideas if you want to stay themed. Or if you are playing with wooded areas, you could take advantage of the movement bonus to pick your fights.
Author:  Wan Shi Tong [ Mon May 29, 2017 9:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: High Elf Warrior!
Unless I am much mistaken there is a rule that forces all friendlies to shield if one model in the fight choices to do it. So what Zanick described should not be possible to achieve.

That said you can always back up your two-handed swordsmen and get sort of the same effect.
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