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| What makes a great army? https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=19609 |
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| Author: | Hydraface [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:41 pm ] |
| Post subject: | What makes a great army? |
Hello all! I'm really digging Lord of the Rings and War of the Ring! IMHO, the game system is much better than 40k or WFB, despite it bbeing, seemingly, not as popular or 'sexy'. I've found it fast paced, tactically challenging, involving and I consider the miniatures for LotR to be of an exception quality, and with a fantastic 'real' style which I prefer to the other G.W. games. I'm encouraging everyone in my store to give it a whirl, and it's taking hold! So I'm new to the board, and a fairly rookie player (I've had a few games, so I'm not a complete beginner). I picked Isengard as my army for the theme, ease of collecting (The models are a cinch to paint well!), and for the big beasties like the Trolls. I've perused the board, and was very interested in the poll regarding which army is 'best'. Mordor seems to be a clear winner. What I was wondering is, in people's opinion, why? What makes Mordor so effective? In fact, what makes armies effective in game terms generally? Powerful leaders? Solid troops? Cheap points allowing for hordes? Is it worth sacrificing one of these elements for another, for example, generally speaking, ensuring you have a great hero regardless of cost, or is it preferable to splash the points on decent troops with heroes as a secondary consideration? |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What makes a great army? |
Welcome! All the reasons you mentioned about liking this system are shared by others here. I too like the realistic nature of the models. I'm not personally into WotR because I don't really like tray games, but plenty of others here do. I only play SBG, so my comments below should be viewed in that light. IMHO, there is no "best" army, which is one of the appealing features of the game. Some are more competitive than others, but with clever alliances you can make anything work. Also, using scenarios is a sure way to keep people mixing up their army configurations, since some armies perform better under certain conditions than others. Using terrain can also change the dynamic considerably. Lastly, a lot of people play for theme, that is, a good theme and challenging game is more important than winning. Mordor certainly is powerful, mostly because of the Ringwraiths. They can neutralize heroes, so you have to be clever about how to avoid them and their spells. Mordor also has a wide range of minor heroes and troop types, which gives it great flexibility. But Isengard is just as viable a choice, and if you want a Ringwraith you can always ally one in. As for army configuration, one truth about the game is that tends to reward quantity vs quality. One to one, a warrior with a higher Fight score will have a 16% greater chance of winning the fight. But 2 goblins against 1 elf means the elf is more likely to lose. With cheaper troops you can afford to take more points in heroes, whereas with more expensive troops, you need the warrior count so you might take fewer heroes. Hope you enjoy the game! |
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| Author: | General Elessar [ Mon Oct 18, 2010 6:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What makes a great army? |
The poll you saw was WotR. I'll try to give a basic summary of which armies are best, and the pros and cons of each army. I think most, if not all, players would agree that Mordor is the best WotR army. On the second tier is Gondor, Dwarves, Fallen Realms, and Moria. On the third tier is Isengard, Rohan. On the bottom tier is Elves and Angmar. Gondor Pros - good and reliable standard formation, best artillery, powerful Heroes Cons - no magic, no monsters Rohan Pros - lots of Epic Heroes, good cavalry Cons - no magic, no monsters, no uber heroes Elves Pros - very powerful Heroes Cons - formations are all too expensive and too fragile Dwarves Pros - good formations, high defence Cons - no cavalry, no magic Mordor Pros - Nazgul, Morannon Orcs, lots of variety Cons - None, except perhaps no uber Epic Heroes Isengard Pros - high strength, Saruman, a few powerful formations Cons - overpriced, lack of Epic Heroes Moria Pros - fast, cheap, Balrog & Dragon Cons - lack of Epic Heroes, weak formations Fallen Realms Pros - lots of variety Cons - not enough Pros Angmar Pros - a few good formations Cons - very few variety To finish off, I think the most important aspect of an army is the standard formation. This formation is going to make up the biggest part of the army; if it's not any good, the biggest part of the army isn't any good. |
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| Author: | Xelee [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What makes a great army? |
General Elessar, I'm not sure if I agree with your assessment of Moria (they have twoof the best value Epics in the entire game) and Fallen Realms (Betrayer + Khamul + Easterling Warriors for 30pts + 25pt Corsair Arbalests + Mumaks + Morgul Knights seem like a heck of a lot of pros to me). Also, Gondor does not have some of the best artillery, in fact it has just about the worst, for its cost. Mordor clearly has the best. I agree that the key thing is often the standard formation (this is why I think Angmar are underrated and Elves are not very good) but I think the best armies make good use of well chosen heroes as well. Isengard has both of these though. Hydraface, Isengard are a great list - they have good heavy infantry, crossbows as a common choice, an awesome spell caster (mastery 3, ruin list, gets Epic Ruination for free each turn), a couple of great leaders (Lurtz and Thrydan) and one of my favourite battlehosts - Thrydan's Warband. Dunlendings not counting as rares are exceptionally good value. You can easily make an Isengard list as good as Mordor through allies. In fact, I don't think you really want to make anything quite as good as Mordor can potentially be - the oversue of the top-tier Wraiths is a bit sad. |
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| Author: | Shadowswarm [ Tue Oct 19, 2010 1:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What makes a great army? |
I agree that in WOTR mordor has a bit of an edge against everyone else, but that doesnt mean that your going to lose to them every time, so dont let that discourage you. In SBG as whafrog said it does favor quantity more than quality, but that defiantly doesnt mean that a horde of goblins always smashes the expensive elves (I play goblins and my friend who plays elves has smashed me with them) Isengard is an elite army so you wont be boasting the most numbers, but you can boast having some of the best troops in the game (elves have skill, uruks have raw power) and you also get crossbows, which are the one of the best ranged weapons in the game (elves with bows and artillery are also one of the best), AND you get pikes that allow you to really concentrate your force to it hit harder rather than hitting softer in more places (easterlings and elves can also get pikes). Lurtz sadly isnt that great of a leader, the other 2 named uruk heros are a bit better. Now as you can see everyone has good and bad points about their army (a bad point about isengard is low #s, a good point is that uruks are elite), there are various ways to make up for your weakness or improve on your strengths. Isengard can also take orcs- they arent as good as uruks but they are cheaper so they help improve your army by making it a bit larger. and if you want to go further you can add in allies. like if I wanted some magic then I could ally in a Nazgul (you can also use saruman but he is more expensive). so over all: dont worry about how they say mordor is 'best', they may have a slight advantage, but overall you determine the result of the game (and i think that this is only relevant for wotr, sbg is quite balanced). and what makes a good army: well that depends on what the game is, if i have a list made up of cavalry then i wont be that great at defending cause cavalry need to be very offensive, on the flip side an elven force full of bows makes a great defensive army and so would do better at that- it will also depend on what kind of enemy your are versing -> so there can be no 'best' army |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What makes a great army? |
Agree with shadowswarm Mordor is a stronger faction to use but It's not undefeatable I defeated them many times with my gondorians  .And in sbg what makes a stronger faction is variation how more troops you can choose with different profiles and different abilities how stronger you can make a army. |
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| Author: | hero of gondor [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:01 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What makes a great army? |
Agree with shadowswarm Mordor is a stronger faction to use but It's not undefeatable I defeated them many times with my gondorians .And in sbg what makes a stronger faction is variation how more troops you can choose with different profiles and different abilities how stronger you can make a army. |
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| Author: | Hydraface [ Wed Oct 20, 2010 9:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: What makes a great army? |
Wow! Some great replies! Thanks for the help everyone, the posts have been very informative and helpful. My War of the Ring 'career' (I dunno what to call it when you get into a game and play regularly) is going to really take off, and I think this info will help. Mention was made of Battlhosts. I thought these might be a great way to make a 'plug-and-play' effective army. I'm very tempted by 'The fighting Uruk Hai' seem like a solid, powerful formation that may be useful against what I believe my opponent is taking, that being Elves and/or Army of the dead (re-rolling failed terror tests, using Saruman's courage (inspiring leader) seems too good to pass up. Also 'Lurtzs' scouts' seem like the fastest things since anything that ever existed ever, which could make him well worth taking. Having said that, Ugluk's scouts' also seem to have a lot of bite and look like great fun to use; lots of variety and some fun characters. Mayy have to start a thread on battle hosts... Anyway, thanks again for the help everyone, keep it coming! |
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