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SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
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Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sun Aug 29, 2010 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
Well I'm joining another tournament thats in september and I wanted to start getting ideas for an army as i might buy some things like a drum if I'll need it
the missions are Ill met by moonlight, storm the camp, meeting engurzagment

So This was my first idea

Durburz
shaman
4prowlers
63 goblins - 22bows, 20sh, 21sp
Dragon - fly and tough hide (tough hide > fire otherwise he can be shot to death... expensively in ill met by moonlight.. +1 to wound in shooting)
7might, 70models, 22 archers

I really love my dragon and thats why i have him in there, but because of that I dont get any nazgul, killers (apart from him... but I still need something like a troll to stop elite troops from killing everything), or anything with high D, or fast stuff (apart from the dragon)

so I'm wondering if i should drop the dragon, but if i do then ill have nothing to really threaten ppl with, as trolls can be killed ALTHOUGH i do have a witch king on fell beast, but im worried he'll become a pin cushion (I also have a mounted shadow lord but getting them both is too expensive)

So please give ideas, hints and critique
Author:  General Elessar [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 3:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
Looks good. I might try to squeeze a drum in though...
Author:  whafrog [ Mon Aug 30, 2010 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
I agree, if you don't take a dragon, a drum, some trolls and a wraith could make fine replacements. Or consider an alliance with Druzhag, with wargs and spiders and bats. Trolls + bats make a great hero-killing combo.
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 1:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
this is my problem: if i take the dragon, then i dont have enough for a drum, nazgul, or a troll, so im putting alot of faith that the dragon will do ok, but at this points lvl there will be heavy magic users like gandalf and nazgul which could shutdown the dragon (unless i can heroic fight to them, killing them first, but still)

if i dont get the dragon and go with a moria list with nazgul, then i have no speed, and an enemy nazgul could still shut down some trolls even if i have one

and whafrog, I've been trying to get druzhag for a while, but i dont buy off GW cause of the prices - i get stuff off ebay, but spiders and bats and druzhag are hard to get on ebay (spiders are rare, i havnt seen druzhag or bats for sale...). I'm considering getting druzhag but $ is a bit of a problem for me currently so I dont think Ill be able to do that. (i do have 7 wargs but no warg chieften)


Idealy i would have the spider queen + spider +wargs +druzhag + moria stuff + nazgul

So here are some of my other ideas


So i just remembered that i have sharku and some warg riders

list 1
Durburz
shaman
2 trolls
Shadowlord on horse
4 prowlers
53 goblins
sharku
3 warg riders w/ throwing weapons
1 warg riders w/ throwing wpn and shield

800pts
9 might 67 models (but no drum)

list 2
Durburz
shaman
shadow lord on horse
4 prowlers
3 trolls
59 goblins

798pts
6 might 69 models (still no drum)

list 3
Durburz
shaman
shadow lord on horse
troll
4 prowlers
drum
64 goblins
1 bat swarm

798pts
6might 75models drum!
The thing about this list is that is relies on the goblins to do everything really, the troll will help, but 1 transix could get him killed... If anyone brings a real killer (mordor troll, boromir ect) I wont have anything to really deal with it, the shadowlord will slow them down, but nothing to really kill it as I cant forsee where the hero will be so the troll probably wont be able to help me much i my opponent has any wit


If im able to get the spider queen and/or druzhag then Ill change it up, otherwise the list above are a rough outline of what i would take (including the dragon list). the tourny isnt for awhile so i got time to get some for stuff this time
Author:  Tackitis [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
Mate I'd just stick with your original list.

Looks really tough, good support from Durburz and the Shaman. And the Dragon is going to be a major morale breaker. And 70 goblins are not going to be easy to move.
I like the list because it's simple you only have a few unit types, so you wont get side tracked by other things.

And like you said you like playing with the dragon so why not.
Author:  Raggbur [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
Well, if you got 63 gobbos, you don't need that much elites. I mean, even the strongest troll can't manage 6 gobbos at the time!
Author:  General Elessar [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
Tackitis wrote:
Mate I'd just stick with your original list.

Looks really tough, good support from Durburz and the Shaman. And the Dragon is going to be a major morale breaker. And 70 goblins are not going to be easy to move.
I like the list because it's simple you only have a few unit types, so you wont get side tracked by other things.

And like you said you like playing with the dragon so why not.


I agree. Out of those four lists, the original looks the best still.
Author:  whafrog [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
I'll third that, plus the original has a great theme: the dragon king of the misty mountains and his screaming horde.

I'm not a fan of the shadowlord. He's a GW invention with only one purpose: mitigate superior bow fire. This turns the game away from learning to use good tactics, and towards a paper-scissors-rock style of play. IOW, too many people use him because of his effect on game mechanics rather than because the theme is interesting or challenging. All just MHO, of course... :)
Author:  Noddwyr [ Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
I 4th that, The original lost is good fluff wise and should be fun to play with.
Author:  spuds4ever [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
Yes, I'd definetely also say the first is best (not to mention the most fun to play). I don't think bow-fire is ever much of a threat to goblin armies as you'll always have another to step in his place.
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
well seeing you all think that the first is good, I'll go with that. and really, that dragon is so much fun to use, im gonna get some bats some time, then ill have a flying formation! :rofl:
well in general - flying stuff is soooooo good, as manuverability gives you such an advantage (something that my goblins have lacked in the past, but that was before i saw them in wotr!)
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
I have some problems/questions. Should i take less archers? cause i dont think that i would need that many, and take more sh/sp instead.

also, in a mission such as storm the camp i would have my army go out and the archers stay behind(would slowly move and shoot, but when the enemy approaches they run back), but if my force breaks then all my archers would run... so would it be ok to have the shaman back with them? (if they are a slow army then id have him run back, but if they have anything that could intercept him running back then id have him stay behind)

and in ill met by moon light, what should i have start out front? i will take the dragon and durburz, but what troops? take lots of archers and try to move back and shoot when their in range? or just lots of regular guys (and some archers, and vica versa with the mass archers) (im favoring the archers to try and kill off dangerous stuff before it hits or at least take out heros horses (+1 to wound!!))

meeting engadgement will depend on the terrain and opponent, so cant really ask for help on that


storm the camp if one of my favorite senarios, and the dragon is so good in that one, cause hes so dangerous and so fast, the enemy has to keep lots of guys back just to stop him
Author:  spuds4ever [ Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
I think you have a good amount of archers. Maybe swap a few out but move the archers in slowly and get them into combat once the melee starts, then you won't have to worry about having them with a leader.
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
I might be able to get a friend to play in the tourny, although he has never played the game before, so he needs a beginner's list.
(he would be using my pieces, but i have 3 durburzes(from getting things on ebay... i buy things being sold in bulk...)) and an extra shaman, so he can use almost all the regular stuff with the exception of prowlers and the dragon

so should he use something similar to my list (switch dragon for balrog), drum+trolls or shadowlord + drum +troll(s) or witchking on fell beast +troll
Author:  Raggbur [ Sat Sep 11, 2010 9:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
I wouldn't give him lots of heroes, drums, dragons and stuff; and go for a list with plenty of trolls gobbos and warg riders
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
not sure about warg riders, if u use them wrong they get shot up or slaughtered in combat

im thinking more toward the balrog, he's such an easy guy to use, run to the enemy, smash them (getting heros if he can), and as long as there are some gobs behind him so he wont get surrounded the whole game then hes fine

and using something like the witch king would be fun, and i could teach him how to use it

i guess it will be up to my friend, ill post if hes gonna try it and what kind of list he wants
Author:  spuds4ever [ Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
Shadowswarm wrote:
not sure about warg riders, if u use them wrong they get shot up or slaughtered in combat

im thinking more toward the balrog, he's such an easy guy to use, run to the enemy, smash them (getting heros if he can), and as long as there are some gobs behind him so he wont get surrounded the whole game then hes fine

and using something like the witch king would be fun, and i could teach him how to use it

i guess it will be up to my friend, ill post if hes gonna try it and what kind of list he wants


You could very well use the witch-king of fell-beast at this level.
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Wed Sep 15, 2010 5:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
well.... hes gonna be too busy so never mind....
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Fri Sep 17, 2010 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
well yesterday i played a game against haldir strikes, aaaaaaaaaaaand i got annihilated. the senario was meeting engagement and what happened was fairly simple. he started on the side with the big hill, and had all his elves stay there (lots of bows....) and his rohan cavalry was to the side of the hill. and it can be summerised like this: my gobs charge, get shot, finally get into combat (but far less # now, and he's still shooting the spears), i lose
the rohan guys slowed the dragon down and then proceeded to kill my 10 archers with 3 guys left...(1 of them i eomer, who didnt even get a scratch after being trapped twice)
the dragon should of charged the side of the elves, to draw the bows attention away (he would of needed to get everyone on him to stop him)

on the bright side the shaman and durburz did great, durburz kept the army together and the shaman almost paid itself off in saving guys

and just a side note: in the 2 games b4 this my dragon killed haldir, this game haldir JUST survived, i charged him, but since he was out of might and i needed to kill masses of guys, i didnt kill him, but he almost met the same fate a 3rd time in a row :P


so im not sure how this will do, if i have to go against someone who does a similar thing, but has someone who can threaten the dragon (gil galad!! and mordor trolls in particular) then i wont be able to get him stuck in as much...
Author:  Shadowswarm [ Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: SBG 800pts Tourny, Goblins
THIS IS ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED AT THE TOURNY (just so you know what its about if your not sure if you want to read it all)

I just got back from the tourny and id say things went well. I got a minor victory against dwarves in ill met by moonlight, a draw in storm the camp (against haldir_strikes!), and a major victory against rohan and dwarves (rohan all cavalry)

in all the games i was super aggressive with the dragon, which paid of so much, even though it earned a reputation of getting terrible rolls to win (in everygame). shooting is key to getting good heroic combats

the first game, ill met by moonlight, was a great game. everything did what i hoped (apart from the dragon not killing enough). we got stuck in combat in turn 1, but by turn 2 the dragon was already doing his job and taking on the big stuff, principally dain (but killed him later on turn 4), then later on proceeded to draw the attention of gimli, balin, and up to 6 kazad, thus neutralising them for most of the game, and killing some kazads in the process. dwarven armor proved itself, even though he had only 44 models totals (to my 69 gobs and a dragon), he managed to break my force (i just cant roll any 6s), but because i won some heroic moves, and cause the dragon can get to heros to stop standfasts (flying stuff is THE BOMB!!!) alot of his army fled (a lot thanks to the dragons -1 to courage). in the end he had gimli, balin, and 2 kazads, and a shield warrior.... all attacking the dragon cause he was doomed. so i honoured his last stand and just had my goblins watch :P
things learned: the dragon is not reliable to win fights, after he uses his might, he often just got a 5, so gimli kept on beating him with his might. prowlers are worth their weight in gold, throwing weapons with +1 to wound, perfect against dwarves. and the shaman + durburz combo is sooooo nice

game 2 was storm the camp against Haldir_strikes. this was the most interesting game, as we both new the strong and weak points of each others army, and had a good idea of what the other person was going to do. the dragon powered forward and got straight to the elven line, next turn he won a heroic combat and charged galadrial (he had ppl blocking her, but my volleys killed them), but then rolled a 3 to win and failed to kill her (in fact he rolled that twice in a row, and later 2s and in others 4s....). after that i didnt get a chance to charge galadrial (i was lucky i got a chance in the first place), but the dragon did distract a sizable chunk of his force, including galadiral (always trying to immobilize). so in the end we both knew that we were going to play defensive, so he moved his archers and cavalry out, but i had a long wall of gobs waiting (1/2 of the wall was archers.... calalry got shot up a bit, eomer dismounted, and shot up other stuff that was coming at them). i had a group of goblins that followed behind the dragons wake, and could of gotten to the objective depending on how well the dragon did. so we ran out of time and called it a draw
this game would of turned out differently if we didnt have a time limit. he attacked a goblin wall that was about 18" long with just 8 cavalry, and several of them got shot down or dismounted (but if we had more time then he wouldnt of tried this).
things learned: archery plays a big part if you start from a long way away (i hid a big part of my army while my archers tried to take out his archers), and volleying is perfect for taking out shamans (D3 against str 3 bows, and once he takes a wound fury is gone (but i hid him for quite a while)). you cant rely on the dragon to kill stuff, but you can rely on him to distract a good chunk of their force

game 3... i liked game 3.... It was meeting engagement and i was against the mass cavalry, theoden, gamling with banner, and dain and his 10ish kazad. deployment was everything for me and i got to pick first. i chose a long edge that had 2 large woodland areas on the sides. this was just what i wanted as cavalry were usless in the woods and so were forced to attack me in a choke point (my goblins fit the gap perfectly, and i still had some gobs lying on the flanks), my archers split in to 2 groups, each went into one of the woodland areas. I was REALLY bold with the dragon this round, and had him charge headlong into all the cavalry (dwarves took a while to catch up). first turn on combat and the dragon was surrounded, but still killed 3 guys, after that he had most of his guys give up on the dragon and go for my army. the choke point was BRILLIANT, he had to charge me directly (if it was an open field, i would of gotten flanked so easily) and because i had so many guys he was always against at 2 or 4 guys, so even with the charge my gobs killed the same has him. the dragon got surrounded by all the dwarves but dain and a few RRK, lost combat but only took 1 wound (i lost 3 fate to a single volley shot.... OF MY OWN!!), next turn he flew out of there and charged theoden and gamling (i just HAD to get rid of gamling's banner). the rohirrim died off pretty fast, and the dwarves only joined in the fray in the last few turns. in the end his was fighting to break me (and hoping that we would run out of time), but his surviors were mostly on the right side, so i avoided them and simply surrounded the guys in the middle and left (save dain, a RRK and a kazad, they were far enough from my big mob of goblins to not get surrounded)
things leaned: cavalry need to attack the flank if they can or else they face too many ppl (well if fighting a mob army like gobs). if you dont have magic then the dragon is going to ruin your day, he will eat you bit by bit and will eventully get to your heros (he learned from my other games and had a triangle of guards around his heroes, but then had the rohan heroes fight on the front line, so i moved my goblins out of the way and charged the 2 guys with the dragon)

a trick that i learned is to volley/ shoot at ppl that block a path to something, i did this and was then able to charge galadrial with the dragon, even though he thought she was safe from him.. so if you want ur heroes to be properly safe from ppl w/ heroic fights then you need 2 layers of guards (evil has a trick to counter this: shoot into combat to kill your own guys and stop heroic fights)

this tournament had alot of variety, there were all sorts of armies: army of the dead, dwarves, goblins (me), elves -rohan, elves - gondor, dwarves -rohan, KHAND (ive never seen this army before, only in the books), isengard (with 3 bombs!), mordor, elves-numenor... some of the armies i REALLY wanted to vs was Khand, isengard (those bombs make for a very interesting game), and the elves-numenor army (it had gil-galad, isildur and elendil! that combo can kill just about anything!)

Even though i did pretty well, i came second last (because my army is only part painted... so if it was painted i could of gotten 6 more points, getting me to 3rd or 4th place)
i really liked todays games, and it has reinvigorated my love for sbg, wotr is fun, different, and has great combos, but sbg has all the little moments where a goblin holds off 5 elves, or a lone archers makes an amazing shot (one of my archers that sneeked behind enemy lines sniped a banner in game 1!)
annoyingly i got a really low score for army composition, i guess it was too power gaming having the dragon and then just the goblins essentials to get max numbers...

aaaaand i won something in the luck draw again!! they give out 4 of them and there are only 12ish ppl, so you have a decent chance of winning :) anyway i got grimbold, but they allow you to trade in your prize for a different one or for a voucher! so i will soon have druzhag! (they didnt have it in stock, so i have to wait)

ive used the dragon a lot lately so i think ill hold off for a while and try to get more beasts (bats please!)
so now i think its time to finish the beast army that ive always wanted (wargs, bats, spiders, and the dragon at high pts lvl)

hell this is the most ive ever written (thats not an assignment), so thanks to anyone who reads it all
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