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Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/priming
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Author:  Morgoths_crown [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 10:40 am ]
Post subject:  Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/priming
Hi all
I am a painter of 13 years experience and am annoyed at myself over the silly mistakes I have made, namely in using chaos black as a primer (brush on, not spray on). I have been using it for 11 years and even though I have little problems with it, I perhaps have thought too much about its effectiveness and have noticed paint chips on figures I painted that have not been handled with anything but the tenderest of care.
I never sprayed as I do not have the space nor do I like the environmental issues involved with spraying and regardless of technique I could never get full control asI can with a brush.
Has anybody else used chaos black or citadel brush on paints as primers (as opposed to undercoats)? I have ordered vallejo surface primer for future work but feel that, as a fine art painter, I should have worked out the need for a dedicated primer sooner.

Is vallejo primer any good?
What about Imperial Primer? Any alternatives to spraying?
I am at a loss and have lost my confidence in doing any more painting. Sounds silly but I feel very foolish my hard work has been ruined by a daft error
Author:  Dead Marsh Spectre [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
I brush prime with vallejo game colour black and before that GW chaos black and have never noticed any problems.

Never used a spray and never will. Don't feel like i have as much control with a spray .In my opinion the most important coat on a miniature is the prime coat, especially with metal models as if you miss one little spec as soon as the sunlight hits it BOOM it shines like a supernova lol. Take your time and check your black coat thoroughly before you start basecoating.

Don't lose confidence just pick your brush up and get painting.
Author:  Morgoths_crown [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
cheers DMS. It started over a debate over primer where I was talking with a 'friend' who lambasted my foolishness over using ordinary paint over dedicated primers.
It isnt helped by a latent perfectionist streak that I have (and will be writing a blog about).
Quite funny that I have only picked up a brush again in a year due to the same silly concerns only for this confidence to be knocked within a month. It is reassuring to hear somebody else uses acrylic paint as a primer as I hate using sprays.
I will wait till I get my vallejo primer but might experiment.
Author:  Dead Marsh Spectre [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
I find the Vallejo primers a little thin to be honest and often takes two passes over the model to get good coverage. I think to be honest that you may find yourself more frustrated using them (i know i do) Straight Vallejo Game Colour black is perfect as is chaos black although the new GW Abbadon black i find useless for prime coats as again it is too thin even after a good shake. Don't get downhearted and try not to overthink the problem, Just keep at it.
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
I've used chaos black to prime and dedicated primer for priming. I have not noticed a difference. Primer isn't designed to prevent chipping. Sealant is what you need to use to prevent chipping. Buy a brush on sealer and you'll be fine.
Author:  jdizzy001 [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
PS-primer is acrylic. We prime so we can paint acrylic on acrylic as opposed to acrylic on metal. Additionally, your friend ought to feel ashamed for telling someone how to paint. There is no wrong way to paint a mini. That is like calling someone foolish for using TMM over NMM. The whole hobby is about preference. Just keep painting.
Author:  Morgoths_crown [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
cheers.
I am overthinking things I am sure. My figures are display only and are not handled very often. Will just try and get on and paint. Perfectionism is a pain in the backside to be fair
Author:  Dead Marsh Spectre [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
Morgoths_crown wrote:
cheers.
Perfectionism is a pain in the backside to be fair


Agreed! I suffer from the same thing lol
Author:  Morgoths_crown [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
Dead Marsh Spectre wrote:
Morgoths_crown wrote:
cheers.
Perfectionism is a pain in the backside to be fair


Agreed! I suffer from the same thing lol


It has physically stopped me from working on quite a lot of projects over the years. Not really partial to panic but I am relieved to hear others dont use 'primer'. As for 'friend', he reallt is just somebody I know who thankfully isnt part of lotr mini scene.
Author:  orc-archer [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
I use the vallejo primer, the black one, and it's pretty good. I brush it on. It's great to be able to undercoat miniatures inside even if there is a snowstorm outside. The white and grey ones do not work well without an airbrush thought, they don't cover well at all with a normal brush. Let the primer harden over night, or 6-7 hours. It rubs off rather easily the first hours.

I've tried the Imperial Primer and it works fine too, but I prefer Vallejo because it's cheaper.
Author:  Morgoths_crown [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
cheers orc archer. Having a nightmare at the moment with a few figures which isnt helping
Author:  Xintao [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
First off, The "perfection thing", it is an evil, paralyzing poison to be avoided. I find when I try to plan out the perfect project, it's just that, "a plan". I plan for years, and never get it done. Now If I jump right in and figure it out as I go along, I do much better.

Now for primers, in 25 years I've used everything, from none, to overpriced hobby primer. Right now I prime based on what the material I am about to paint. Some of the newer plastics(talking about you Reaper Bones) require very careful priming. Other material like some metals can be painted with anything.

So in no particular order
General Priming-metals, hard plastics: I use a sandable auto body primer.
Soft Plastics-Bones, etc: I use Army Painter, it doesn't melt the plastic.
Other soft plastic, like Dwarven Forge game tiles: I use Liquitex Gesso Black.
-It's not shiny and smooth like Army Painter, so it grabs paint very
well when dry brushing.

One of the reasons I like priming is painting from the same base, black. Painting up from any other color is alien to me after 25 years.

Now having said all that, my friend uses cheap paint from Walmart and his figures are fine.
Author:  Ukfreddybear [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 7:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
I usually brush on chaos black and haven't noticed anything untoward. I don't feel like I have control with a spray as it is very easy to overload details by pooling.
Author:  Jobu [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
Just want to put a shout out for liquitex gesso. I actually mix the white and black together to get grey and add a bit of water. I hate painting over black. The gesso, as long as you do not put it on too thick ( true of anything ) really dries down and allows the details to be seen. I use it on plastic and metal, had some issues with it on resin but I think that was the mold release.
Author:  Morgoths_crown [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
I haved thought about gesso as this was the god of gods when I was a student. I will give it a go as have some lying around. I still feel rather daft for my concerns to be fair, given I am no noob. However, even the most experienced can lose confidence
Author:  Xintao [ Tue Jan 13, 2015 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
It's not lose confidence. It's find a better technique. Honestly I've changed my painting style a few times over 25 years. Each time it's not giving up, it's learning new methods. And after all this time, there is still stuff I don't know. Like using a wet pallet. Or using an airbrush, that is like magic from the gods to me. Or sculpting. Couldn't sculpt my way out of wet paper bag.
Author:  Gene Parmesan [ Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
Don't be too hard on yourself. I more or less completely flipped the way I paint about a year ago and I've never looked back. Keep trying new things and pushing yourself. No method is sacred either, getting out of your comfort zone helps.
Author:  Morgoths_crown [ Thu Jan 15, 2015 10:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Lost confidence and silly errors regarding painting/prim
Gene Parmesan wrote:
Don't be too hard on yourself. I more or less completely flipped the way I paint about a year ago and I've never looked back. Keep trying new things and pushing yourself. No method is sacred either, getting out of your comfort zone helps.


Cheers. Perfectionism is a constant struggle in this hobby for me and I thought I had banished it. I am forcing myself to just paint as my dad, a decorator of 40 years experience told me that a clean model free of grease is the important thing and that the modern acrylics will stick. To prove a point he took a primed figure of mine (primed 5 years ago in chaos black) and he couldnt scratch the paint off. He taught me all that I know and is a true craftsman.

In that spirit I have painted 3 new figures this week alone, some of my best, and worst work but I enjoyed them!
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