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| A real-life archer faster than Legolas? https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=25597 |
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| Author: | Azog [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 6:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
I spotted this on theonering.net Can you believe this guy ? http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2013/03 ... n-legolas/ |
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| Author: | craigofgondor [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:10 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
That's pretty fast! The only thing that stands out is the targets he's shooting at don't move. And the Uruk-hai are running. Still it would be good to be that skilled. |
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| Author: | Gandlaf the Grey [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
Phenomenal !!! |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
craigofgondor wrote: That's pretty fast! The only thing that stands out is the targets he's shooting at don't move. And the Uruk-hai are running. Still it would be good to be that skilled. ? You aren't looking at the same video. He's hitting a spinning wheel, and targets tossed in the air. All this makes the -1 movement penalty for archery in the Hobbit rules kind of...more lame than they already are. 
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| Author: | Sanguinis [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
Who needs a gun, right? |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
Its particularly interesting with the Bayeau tapestry! |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
I don't see this working in a real battle. He is not pulling the bow to full draw, and the bow has a very weak draw weight. He couldn't do the same with a 90 pound draw weight longbow, drawing it all the way back. He may be able to get it to go through that chain mail, but that's at about twenty feet. I doubt they would do anything to an armoured warrior 200 feet away. A longbow can send an arrow through a four inch thick slab of oak, he can't do that with this technique. It's cool, but wouldn't work as shown in a battle. Also, if you have the quiver on your hip, rather than over the shoulder you can get very fast shooting times. Obviously not as fast as this, but still very fast. |
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| Author: | Grungehog [ Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:42 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
will need to try that technique out with my bows |
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| Author: | Hashut's Blessing [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
I refused to comment on this earlier, but I won't hold my tongue longer. The arrows aren't piercing very much - the discs at the end has an arrow bouncing off (easily spotted in the slow otion - first disc/arrow). There's no strength and the wounds wouln't be debilitating Also, the ease of dropping the arrows in the heat of battle and dodging returning fire is an issue. As for the utter twonk about the tapestry showing other types of bow firing techniques, that's poppycock! It's a stylisation of how the bow was used, not saying they only half drew the sodding thing! Lastly, piercing the riveted chainmail is nothing - as theavenger001 said, it's 20ish feet away. But, ultimately, this would happen anyway: chainmail is for protecting primarily against slashing attacks, not piercing/thrusting ones and it would be left to the gambeson (padding/padded jacket) underneath to reduce the damage. In this case, clearly stopping the arrow from splitting the skin as well. Summary: impressive speed, useless application. More impressive (although seemingly less accurate, but at least a decent power) was the Russian lady who fires 10 arrows in 13 seconds (watch her video). |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:23 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
Hashut's Blessing wrote: *Snip* Here here.  I forgot to comment on the banner thing as well. I agree that you cannot go by old artistic things for such tiny details like how far the bow is drawn back. Ever heard of artistic license? Going by that you should have wobbly bows that are not exactly the same on each limb. Look at the Bayeau tapestry, his bow is not a nice curve. So apparently you should have a wonkly bow and only draw it back half way to be an expert. /Sarcasm
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 4:58 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
I think you guys are missing the point...sure this video shows low power shooting, but ancient people lived a much harder life with musculature and practice to match, not to mention the impetus that comes from knowing your life (getting food, killing enemies) depends on it. They would have started shooting as children. So if some Danish guy or Russian girl in a gym can figure this out, it's no stretch that the ancient written descriptions weren't exaggerations. |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
whafrog wrote: So if some Danish guy or Russian girl in a gym can figure this out, it's no stretch that the ancient written descriptions weren't exaggerations. I'm not contestig the '10 arrows in the air' thing, I'm contesting that this is how they actually shot in battle. It does not have the power to be worth it. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 2:52 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
Right...and I'm saying the power would have been there had we been watching people from that time period. I'll agree that the "shoot from any position" would have been less effective, just not as ineffective as you're implying. |
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| Author: | Bilbo [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 3:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
If your desperate and up against unarmoured opponents, I would rather fight some one with an arrow in him with a non fatal wound than without! I suspect that this could really disable a cavalry charge (Agincourt close range), and the chap in the video was using inoffensive bodkins. |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
whafrog wrote: Right...and I'm saying the power would have been there had we been watching people from that time period. I'll agree that the "shoot from any position" would have been less effective, just not as ineffective as you're implying. So you think that they would have been able to shoot this fast, while drawing a bow with twice the poundage back all the way? I just don't see this technique working back then for your joe army archer....  But in the end it's mostly speculation. I can say that what's in the video would not work in a real battle, but we don't know how what he's done would compare to the actual thing ~1,000 years ago. |
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| Author: | whafrog [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:45 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
theavenger001 wrote: But in the end it's mostly speculation. I can say that what's in the video would not work in a real battle, but we don't know how what he's done would compare to the actual thing ~1,000 years ago. ...except we have documentation. A point in the video was that modern archers have discounted the old documentation as exaggerations, when maybe it's more that modern archers are so removed from the training methods and lifestyle they can't imagine it. Similar example: the Inuit of the Aleutian islands are recorded as being able to keep up with sailing ships in their kayaks. Nobody today could do this, so it sounds like exaggeration. But when they finally uncovered some skeletal remains they noted that the depth and size of muscular attachments of the shoulders was far greater than any modern human. That coupled with reconstructions of whale-bone kayaks suggest these tales weren't, in fact, exaggerations. |
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| Author: | Dorthonion [ Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:44 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
I am impressed with the speed and technique, though the emphasis seems to be on speed rather than combat effectiveness. While the bows used for the demos are not war bow draw weights, I would not fancy standing in front of either of these archers and getting turned into pincushion for arrows. Medieval style shooters who have a lot of practice with longbows and such have proven that the historical accounts of 300 yard plus range and the ability to have 4 arrows on the way before the first arrives can be done by people who have trained for it and can meet the physical demands. Long blond wigs not essential  Thanks for sharing Azog. I will be trying this with the B a z o o k a. |
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| Author: | Hashut's Blessing [ Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:22 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
I'd like to point out I never said it wouldn't have worked way back when, merely that his use of it was ineffective. Someone who had been training at a proper draw weight their entire life would be deadly with it (the English had to practice for 2 hours every week with the bow so they could have the strength to use it in protracted warfare - most adults today can't fully draw the longbows of the time and those that can can only do it once or twice [excepting those that do muscle training of some kind]). Bilbo: I agree - but I'd rather fire 10 arrows in 13 seconds and do some damage that'll affect their performance or remove them from the equation than 10 that will ultimately do little in 5 seconds before having to try and put another 10 arrows in hand. |
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| Author: | theavenger001 [ Thu Mar 28, 2013 3:00 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: A real-life archer faster than Legolas? |
whafrog wrote: *snip* Yeah, I guess with a life of training it would be possible to get close to what he did with an army strength bow, though pulling it all the way back owuld probably slow them down a little bit... I kinda wish that we were still back then. It would be awesome to be able to train with a longbow for hours each day until you were awesome with it. These days unless you're super rich and have the inclination, you just don't have the time... 
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