Nicely said, the director.
Some examples; These are all maiar:
Gandalf
Radagast
Saruman
Balrog
Sauron
Amarthadan
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| Who would you have saved ? https://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10716 |
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| Author: | Joansean [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Who would you have saved ? |
Reading through ROTK for the second time , I found out that Pippin called Gandalf to help Faramir (who was about to be burned) Because of this, Gandalf ceased his chase of the Witchking, who then merrily rode along and killed Theoden. Because of this , Faramir was saved , but if Gandalf continued his chase of the WK he could have stopped him and saved Theoden , but then Faramir would have been burned alive. Who would you have saved , Faramir or Theoden ? |
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| Author: | BilboOfTheWhiteTower [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Tough question. Probably two of my favorite characters and it is so hard to choose between them...probably Theoden. My reasoning for this would have to be that Theoden is the leader of Rohan and is still capable of doing something on the battlefield, while there is no guarantee that Faramir is still going to live even if I save him from the fire, and even if I know that Faramir is going to live it would have to come down to who is going to produce for me now, not later. In a battle of that magnitude you need every last man fighting and the ones who can't aren't helping...kinda cold, but if I know what these guys are capable of presently, then I have to go for the guy still standing upright. Now on the flips side of that coin, what does Gandalf know? He knows Faramir is alive...is Theoden? Has he been killed by a arrow, or trampled by a Mumakil? I think at the time this character made his decision he had to go on what he knows presently and that Faramir is alive and God only knows where the Witch-king will be off to next. Gandalf made the right choice to save Faramir. |
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| Author: | Valdor [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Eomer is a very good replacement for Theoden. He's even better than Theoden himself. Don't get me wrong, I like both the characters, but I would have also saved faramir.µ theoden was old anyway, and faramir is still young.. |
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| Author: | Dorthonion [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:13 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
As has been pointed out already, it is relatively simple to be wise after the fact, but the choices are still damnable. Tolkien did not make it some toss of the coin event - heads Faramir lives, tails Theoden lives. Maybe he was just trying to point out that even the mightiest leaders and warriors can fall, by chance or by design despite the best efforts of those on their side. History is littered with generals who died on a battlefield even though their side won (Brian Boru is the first to come to mind). He had seen the awful horror of industrialised warfare fought with crass planning and tactics. War, he said, was "animal horror". The siege and the Battle of the Pelennor Fields may be some effort at producing the multiple tens of thousands of casualties that happen in full scale warfare. I can argue for either to be saved, but cannot reach any firm conclusion. Gandalf himself was lucky to survive at all in the film version of RotK, but in the book he was portrayed as more focussed and strong. Theoden's forces won the day, and he died a tragic hero, yet he felt fulfilled or redeemed as he could face his ancestors without feeling shame. |
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| Author: | Valdor [ Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
I remember that in the movie, Theoden says "no parent should ever burry his own child", or something like that. It might be possible that Tolkien wanted to show that the War would soon be over by finally letting someone old die instead of someone young, as has been the case for so many years. In peace sons bury their fathers. In war, fathers bury their sons. |
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| Author: | TheElvenLord [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 6:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well i say that Gandalf should of chased the Witch King.I would think that if you were placed in a fire while unconscious you would wake up.So there wasnt really any need to go after him.He woke up anyway from what i can recall. TheElvenLord |
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| Author: | Haldir_Strikes [ Tue Jul 24, 2007 10:59 pm ] |
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Did the witch-king break Gandalf's Staff in the book as well? And if so, before Gandalf had to make that decision? If he did, well Gandalf probably couldn't have been able to do anything anyway seeing as his magical stick wouldn't be able to scare away any of the wraiths. |
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| Author: | Joansean [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
No , Gandalf's staff was not broken in the book. The Witchking was seriously overpowered in the movie , Even gandalf the greay would have enough power to face him and a reasonoble chance to win .... |
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| Author: | Valdor [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:03 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Well, in the movie, Gandalf didn't have a choise: he was riding to Faramir's aid when he was intercepted by the Witch-King. His staff was broken and he couldn't fight the witch-king anyway (plus the Witch-King flew away and gandalf can't fly himself...). As for the book? Well, if Aragorn can defeat the Witch-King in hand-to-hand combat on Weathertop, i'm sure Gandalf could defeat him with his magic. And if even Eowyn could chop the serpent's head off (not sure this happened in the book), then Gandalf could do that too. But what's done can't be undone. (P.S.: don't you guys think this is weird? In 'The return Of The King' gandalf sais that Sauron has yet to unveill his sterongest warrior, the Witch-King. But Aragorn totally kicked his ass on Weathertop! i know, they got more power from Sauron, but still...) |
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| Author: | BilboOfTheWhiteTower [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
To my understanding Valdor, the wraiths became stronger closer to Mordor (cannot remember if this was in the movie or the book, pretty sure it was in the book). |
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| Author: | username [ Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Yeah, I think that Gandalf made the right choice to save Faramir, since he was a figurehead of Gondor, and the last of the royal line, since Denethor was going to kill himself anyway. Theoden still had Eomer and Eowyn to succeed him, and Theoden wanted, in a sense, die a heroic death. What I mean is that it is far more prudent to save the only heir of a kingdom, (this is thinking that Aragorn might not have made it through the Paths of the Dead) than to save another kingdom's ageing monarch, especially when he has not one, but two heirs. |
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| Author: | Amarthadan [ Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Joansean wrote: No , Gandalf's staff was not broken in the book.
The Witchking was seriously overpowered in the movie , Even gandalf the greay would have enough power to face him and a reasonoble chance to win .... I haven't seen the extended RotK, but I get the picture. Indeed he is totally overpowered. I remember a few lines in Unfinished Tales that say that at the time of FotR, Saruman alone would be able to drive off all the Nazgûl together. I know, Saruman is stronger than gandalf but that's not the point. Let's not forget: Gandalf=Maia, Witch-King=Human Wraith. Under normal circumstances: Maia=much more powerful than human. Amarthadan |
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| Author: | TheElvenLord [ Sat Jul 28, 2007 4:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Whats Maia, ive never heard of it?? |
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| Author: | the director [ Sat Jul 28, 2007 5:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
basically demi gods from what i get, gandalf was one under the name of olorin. Probably why he was reborn after killing the balrog |
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| Author: | Amarthadan [ Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Nicely said, the director.
Some examples; These are all maiar: Gandalf Radagast Saruman Balrog Sauron Amarthadan |
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| Author: | Padelis of Numenor [ Thu Aug 02, 2007 2:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Sadly |
Sadly I have to say that I would have saved Framir because Theoden might have died already before the Witch-King attacked also Theoden was old and Faramir was young althougt I like both characters and I would prefer Theoden to be saved to. 
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| Author: | Balathor [ Fri Sep 28, 2007 6:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Both of these characters are some of my favorites as well, but I'd have to save Faramir. Gandalf didn't have as much information as we do, especially after reading the books and seeing the movies, about what was going on, so he had no way of knowing whether or not Theoden was alright. Also, Gondor needed Faramir. If Faramir died and his line ended, who would be able to crown Aragorn king? Now, I know in the movie that Gandalf does, but I doubt that that would actually happen. A steward must crown the king, and without a steward to crown him, how can he be crowned? I hope that made sense. >_> |
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| Author: | Eothain [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Actually, that made perfect sense. I would have saved Farimir too. |
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| Author: | Battlefighter [ Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:48 pm ] |
| Post subject: | |
Faramir. i also think that for example theoden was older and well gandalf made the right decison as some of you said theaoden could already be dead |
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| Author: | FirieloftheHavens [ Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | |
Faramir Theoden has already fought on the Pelennor and may "go to the halls of my fathers in whose mighty company I shall not now be ashamed" (sorry if quote is not accurrate). Faramir has yet to prove himself as steward of Gondor. |
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