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DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*
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Author:  theavenger001 [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:04 pm ]
Post subject:  DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

So, I got to see DoS yesterday, thanks to the *other* One ring. I have a few thoughts, though I'll be brief as I have studying to do!

WARNING there is a lot of plot stuff, like a lot. So if you don't want to know basically all of the major stuff, stop reading!












First off, it does start out with thorin/Gandalf meeting in the prancing pony. The whole point of the quest is actually to get the arkenstone so that thorin can rally the other six dwarf clans so that together they can kill the dragon. So, a slight twist on the plot there. Then comes Beorn, who is good. The crazy hair was fine, I didn't really notice it, especially since he was in bear from for 3/4 of the time. Mirkwood is good, lots of action there. The spiders are definitely big. Thorin refuses to let Thranduil let them go in exchange for the white gems that Thranduil wanted back in AUJ EE. (Becuase the elves didn't help them after Smaug came, so he doesn't trust Thranduil.)

There's an extended fight scene during the barrel ride, which eventually ends with the dwarves escaping and finding bard. There is a Girion/black arrow flashback at some point too...Eventually the dwarves get the master of lake towns help, and leave. But a few of them stay behind because of an injury to one of them suffered during the barrel ride.

*Important detail* Bolg is most definitely that new design, and yes he has a bow. He takes over the hunt for the company when Bolg is called in by the necromancer to lead his army.

The hunter orcs attack lake town, and tauriel saves said dwarf, as well as legolas having a fight scene with bolg.

Gandalf goes to the high fells, which was done well, but there wasn't much more than what we've seen in the trailers. (including some of the earliest AUJ trailers before 3 movies)

Gandalf goes alone in Dol Guldor, and battles with the necromancer. He captured, and in a cage at the end of the movie. Though he did tell radagast to tell galadriel what he was doing.

Smaug is awesome. The dwarves fight him, and then he leaves after finding out the the people of lake town are allied with them.

And that's about it!

Over all I enjoyed it a lot. Definitely more action than the last one too. I found the Cg to be just fine, though I didn't find AUJ's to be bad. There are definitely some lines straight from the book in there too. My final feeling was one of a bit of a let down though, as for all the action this felt very much like a building movie. Nothing too much happens, and I'm not sure how they'll fit everything into the third movie.

They need to rescue gandalf, attack dul Guldor, have all the orcs fight somewhere (BoFA?), do the smaug/laketown thing, do the thorin crazy thing, do BoFa.....That's a lot of stuff to get through. With at least two major battles, maybe three!


Really great movie though, and I'm glad I'll be seeing it on Saturday again! :D

Author:  Dorthonion [ Tue Dec 10, 2013 4:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

I read the Hobbit in 1974 (Second Age) :)
More or less what I expected, and I am still looking forward to it. I have been listening to the soundtrack and it is not as good as AUJ or the 3 LotR soundtracks - too much discordant stuff (spiders and so forth).

Author:  Scib [ Fri Dec 13, 2013 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

For the most part I thought it was amazing. Some of the action was over the top and I wasn't a fan of the dwarves fighting smaug near the end it was a bit too hectic for me to keep up!

Author:  Gene Parmesan [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Movie wise it was a bit of a mess, but visually beautiful. Maybe I'm letting my guard down or something but I really enjoyed all the completely implausible bits; bomburs barrell hi jinx, Thorin doing a Lara croft all over erebor etc.

The necromancer was a treat, especially the Sauron silhouette. Kudos to Gandalf for using his free will point wisely. Immobilize and blinding light was all I could think of. Wonder if someone involved was an sbg fan.

Smaug was a bit of an anti climax I thought, but that's to be expected.

I was still completely transfixed by the hfr. Best thing about the film I thought.

Author:  Draugluin [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

I was kinda let down on a few points. Bolg looked pretty poor. I didn't think Azog looked like bad CG in the first movie, but he's drop dead gorgeous in this one. Definite improvement, while Bolg could use some refining. And a rework of his rules. The Erebor sequence was a bit much and Tauriel/Kili was pretty dumb. That whole side plot was unnecessary.

Good stuff, Dol Guldur plot line, Beorn, Azog, Mirkwood, barrel ride, BOMBUR THE BEAST IN THE BARREL RIDE, Lake-town and Smaug. I think AUJ was better, but I'm pretty sure that's just me.

Author:  Galanur [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Tauriel/kili plot is wat make the elves save their rear in the movie twice.
Bolg unlike Azog seems to walk like an ape but hes nowhere as skilled as azog, which is badly shown on the rules.
And yes I laughed alot at Bombur for 2 occasions in which he surprised me alot, 1st was running away from beorn with every 1 worried about him for nothing since he ran even faster than the others lol and that ultimate ninja barrel rider fight XD plz some 1 tell Gw to review bombur rules, hes a massive beast in melee lol

Author:  Harfoot [ Sat Dec 14, 2013 11:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Watched DOS last night in 3D HFR, Superb, brillaint, PJ back on form. Honestly could not thought it, brilliant Scene sets, Barrels scene breath taking.

Smaug was really well done. Have to go again over Christmas holidays

Author:  theavenger001 [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Wow, I'm surprised by the response to the Bombur barrel ride and fight. So far everyone I've heard has really enjoyed it. I was fine with it, but thought it was a little bit OTT and unrealistic-kinda like legolas' shield slide in TT...

Author:  Draugluin [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

He's a dwarf, it works. If it was a Hobbit or a Man, it would be OTT.

Author:  JamesR [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Just watched the movie myself. I loved the Bombur moments, especially his pinball of death. I liked all the aforementioned scenes myself, the only CG I didn't like was Legolas on horseback chasing Bolg, it was AWFUL! The horse's movements were jerky, unrealistic and did not interact well with the terrain, LOVED the Sauron scene with his physical form being contained within the pupil of the Eye.

I love how Gandalf has been made to show some power in the Hobbit, in the LOTR trillogy his magic was not shown to be powerful but in these movies he's been far more impressive

Author:  Dorthonion [ Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

JamesR said:
Quote:
I love how Gandalf has been made to show some power in the Hobbit, in the LOTR trillogy his magic was not shown to be powerful but in these movies he's been far more impressive

So taking down a balrog is not a sign of power?
In the book Gandalf battled alone against five of the Nine Nazgul on Weathertop before Frodo, Aragorn and the rest of the hobbits reached it.
He rode out alone to protect the Gondorian forces retreating from Osgiliath as Sauron's armies overran the Pelennor, chasing away the fellbeast riding Ringwraiths.
He fought Saruman who was the chief and most powerful of the five Istari.

Gandalf's only concession to showmanship was his fireworks displays; he worked away quietly behind the scenes.

SPOILER

If you read the Silmarillion and other Tolkien background materials you will discover that Gandalf is in fact the single most persistent Maiar who pleaded the causes of Middle-earth to the Valar and aided Men and Elves in the wars of the First Age. He was there when Thangorodrim was broken. The Free Peoples of Middle-earth owe more to him than any other, and yet he came as a tatty, old wizard, with no fixed abode. But Elrond, Cirdan and Galadriel knew exactly who he was, as did Treebeard and others whose memories stretch from the times of legend.

Author:  Hirumith, the Grey Knight [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Gene Parmesan wrote:
Movie wise it was a bit of a mess, but visually beautiful.

That pretty much sums up how I felt about it. I'm clearly in the minority, but generally thought the movie was only OK, and definitely the weakest, by far, of PJ's Middle-Earth movies.

My main beef with this movie was that it "nuked the fridge" so many times that I never felt like anything was at stake in any of the action sequences. I like that they made the barrel escape into a bit of an action scene, but was rolling my eyes at the Bombur: Dwarf Barrel of Death bit. I didn't like the ridiculous acrobatics that Legolas pulled off in the LOTR trilogy, but it's only one character, he's an elf and they're supposed to have supernatural agility, and it only happens a couple of times. Not so with dwarves, and there's been a tendency for many of the dwarves to pull off all kinds of ludicrous stunts in the two Hobbit movies, so far.

I also feel like they sacrificed what could have been great dialogue-driven scenes, or exposing plot points with imagery rather than a quick line, to have drawn out and, as I mentioned above, ultimately low-impact action sequences. For example, Gandalf's trickery to get Beorn to let the dwarves into his home in the book was much more entertaining than the completely artificial suspense of a character who may-or-may-not-but-obviously-won't attack them, right at the beginning of the movie.

Similarly, Bilbo's escape plan from the Wood Elve's dungeon could have done with a little development. Just one scene, in which he's wearing the ring and sees the drunken elf guards send the barrels down the hatch, would have been nice. That would also have given Bilbo more of a presence earlier in the film - his role seemed strangely downplayed until relatively late in the movie.

I personally also wish the dwarves hadn't confronted Smaug at all, because Bilbo and Smaug's scene in the book is up there with the "Riddles in the Dark" chapter, which was executed really well in An Unexpected Journey.

That said, I generally appreciated the Dol Guldur scenes, and thought they were very atmospheric.

I did not mind the inclusion of Tauriel at all, and actually thought she was a really cool character. The romantic subplot also didn't bug me - the young dwarf is clearly infatuated with her, but it doesn't necessarily seem to be reciprocated beyond a fondness or platonic friendship for him on her part. We'll see how that pans out in the next movie, I guess.

The spider scene was great, and I liked the touch that Bilbo could understand them only when wearing the Ring. The wood elves were also really well done.

In the end, I thought it was visually stunning, consistent with the other films in that regard, and very well cast. The over-the-top action scenes, however, seemed to take front stage over any sense of narrative, which was a shame. I'm not necessarily a purist, or curmudgeon that thinks everything needs to follow the book to a T, but I did think that, in most instances where they significantly deviated from the book for this film, they did so unnecessarily, and ultimately to the detriment of the movie.

Author:  JamesR [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 9:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Dorthonion wrote:
So taking down a balrog is not a sign of power?
In the book Gandalf battled alone against five of the Nine Nazgul on Weathertop before Frodo, Aragorn and the rest of the hobbits reached it.


In the movies theyve downplayed his magic I feel, fighting the Balrog he took out the bridge and all but from the movie's depiction it seems more like circumstances (the fall etc) that weakened the Balrog. I'm not saying he's weak just that the earlier movies dont do him justice.

I am familiar with the Silmarillion, I read it once before. That is actually a large part of why I felt the previous movies down-played his power.

Author:  Gandlaf the Grey [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Just watched the film and I am totally impressed, I simply love it. The scenes under the mountain with Smaug are magnificent. When the end came, I thought I had been sat there for 1.5 hours and couldn't believe nearly 3 hours had gone.
Mirkwood and Beorn were a little brief but I presume more will come out in the extended version.
As for the depiction of Smaug, well it worked for me. Having his front legs as part of the wings was fitting. In fact it reminded me of a dinosaur film were pterodactyls were made to move this way. I can only hope they release a figure of him as it will be majestic.
From the point of view of someone who only models, the option for diorama's was endless and my mind is tick tick ticking, however I will need to see this a few times more.

Author:  Zarathustra Suicuine [ Mon Dec 16, 2013 11:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

I thought it was awesome, though I do wonder who's side the elven king is on, which in itself is brilliant as it matches pre tolkein elves, plus the eldar imagery from 40K.
The Tauriel thing I think is fine, as long as they don't over blow it, I agree that it is more the young dwarf infatuated with her, whereas she likes him for his travels and is frustrated with the lase fair policies of a king who it seems most of the elves dislike.

Author:  black1blade [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 6:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

A three hour films where nothing actully happens in term of pay off. There isn't a woth while climax that the film ammounts to. Smaug should of died!

Author:  Little_Odo [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

I really enjoyed it. I even went for the 3d super dooper version and was mostly impressed (I usually do not like 3d stuff).

Yes there are a few plot holes and things not in the book, but as it seems to still be a film aimed at a younger audience (as per the book) it worked well enough - my kids thought so anyway.

I have to admit to being wary of Tauriel before seeing the film but she turned out OK in the end. My only complaint is that she (non-canonical) seems to outshine Legolas (canonical), so why was he sent to aid the Ring Bearer and not her (Thranduil doesn't want her around his son as she is way below his station) unless something happens to her in the next film?

Author:  whafrog [ Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Little_Odo wrote:
I really enjoyed it. I even went for the 3d super dooper version and was mostly impressed (I usually do not like 3d stuff).


I thought the 3D bees were hilarious

Author:  samoht [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

This movie had its ups and downs and there are few things to get off my chest.

Brilliant Scenes such as the Beorn scene and the giant spider scene could have gone a lot longer but seemed to be undermined and dominated by the useless fighting and sub plots.

Tauriel had potentiel to be a strong female character but instead did nothing but kung fu a few dozen orcs and get stuck in a love triangle. She was the token female character and the POINTLESS love triangle undermined that. Also the actress signed on the condition that she wouldn't.......be in a love triangle.

It was nice to see Legolas but I feel we saw him way too much. Most of that fighting along the river and all of it in lake town could easily have been done by Bard and would have served the story a lot stronger.

Was the movie cool? Yes. Was Tolkien's writing respected? No.

In summary. An enjoyable film with way too much unnecessary nonesense and not enough of those magical moments you would expect from something based off Tolkiens literature.

Author:  Bandobras Took [ Sun Dec 29, 2013 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: DoS review/plot *Spoilers abound*

Gandlaf the Grey wrote:
From the point of view of someone who only models, the option for diorama's was endless and my mind is tick tick ticking, however I will need to see this a few times more.


Yep I've been thinking along the same lines and my next big diorama/display project will be Barrels out of Bond (which I got for Christmas! :D ). The hobby options this film brings are huge!

As for the film itself, I'm afraid I was a little disappointed. I kind of liked it as a film but for me, as a huge fan of Tolkien and someone who really feels his work was enhanced beautifully in the other 4 films (more so in LotR), there were not enough moments of emotional connection like there were in LotR or even AUJ. I think the film-makers missed an opportunity in the theatrical version and should have made it less of a Super Hero movie and taken out the unnecessary plot lines and set-pieces (Love Triangle, Elves battling in Laketown, Smaug vs Dwarves showdown). The left over screen time should then have been devoted to moments of some of Howard Shore's soaring score work with some shots of Thranduil's Halls (nowhere near enough of that) and perhaps background flashbacks to Beorn's origins. Just some of the deeper moments when you can take a breath and relax for a moment because as a Middle Earth film it needs that.

In my ideal Hobbit movie, I feel the Azog chasing plot line should never have existed. However I did enjoy the Barrels sequence and the spicing up was quite good there so who knows...?

There was a lot that was excellent. E.g: the slow corruption of Bilbo by the Ring (Martin Freeman is fabulous!); the designs for all the races again top notch (the Elves especially good); Thranduil himself was excellent... I mean the list could go on but, for me, there was just too much in this film that overstepped the mark in terms of poetic licence with Tolkien's wonderful work. I think TABA will be very good and be back up to the heights of AUJ. After DoS, I was left thinking why they ever made it into 3 movies (2 would have been perfect, IMO) because as black1blade said, nothing really happened.

Anyway sorry about that but the rant is finally over :oops: :-D

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