I would like to thank the Directors and Managing Director of Games Workshop for continuing to support SBG when it would have been so easy to drop it.

I think I speak for many people when I say that I really appreciate what you have done for us who love this game so much.

Thank you Games Workshop

I will be honest....I have lost steam for the LOTR miniatures....mostly because of the price and the lack luster models. This peaks my interest. I am hoping we get to see some new models....non resin....along the lines of the new plastic GW models. The Age of Sigmar models are really nicely made. I am hoping for similar products from GW for LOTR.

I can understand why there's a fair bit of skepticism surrounding this, but I'm pretty excited.

It's seemed for a while now that we've been about to say our last goodbye to the game, at least as far as GW support is concerned. To know that there's something, in some shape or form, on the horizon is pretty cool.

The fact that the Perry brothers sculpted stuff that is yet to be released is in itself great news (well it was news to me - don't know if that was anything new to everyone else). It's always fun to speculate on what's coming, aside from 'the end of the game'.

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Well put Necromancer7, i'm really excited about it as well, hoping for the Trolls from bofa and the Dwarf Chariot. Can't come soon enough

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Very exciting news, can't wait to see what they come up with!

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This is so interesting. Since they are hiring new people on creative positions they must be planning to produce at least some new products. To be honest i cant imagine what those could be, apart Hobbit stuff they haven't produced/published yet.

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This is all well and good but will they learn any lessons ?

How will they try and recover all those hard core lotr gamers that didn't buy into the Hobbit range ?

Will GW even bother trying? Maybe they don't think there are any lessons to learn ?

Maybe they will just continue with their higly priced resin figures, because they view that strategy as successful ?

If so, fair enough, consider them collectables and I will stay away, but I'm a wargamer and I like hundreds (and thousands) of troops but not at £5 for rank and file.....

BTW I already wrote GW a letter a while back saying i thought they were missing a trick. They only have to look at ebay prices to see that re-releasing older figures would give instant income.

I am prepare to remain upbeat and bottom line is it's a positive sign that they will continue supporting the range !

This. Seeing how the Hobbit range is priced, it's hard to be optimistic that GW will put out something of great value for money. I've been staring at the box of Mirkwood Rangers on the shelf whenever I walk into GW over the last year and half and never actually picking it up - it's just not worth it, however great the sculpts are. With this announcement I'm more excited about the fact that the old Lotr range will likely stick around that I can still buy old metal blisters at a relatively affordable price.

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I will reserve judgement until I see what they produce and at what standard of quality and pricing.

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I’m really excited GW looks like it’ll continue to support SBG.

I can't see the prices going down though, it looks like the new studio will be part of Forge World which means premium pricing.

Hopefully though we will see more new plastics, probably around the same price as Mirkwood Rangers.

I think it will be really important to support the new studio. Hopefully they’ll be able to release some great products although I don’t think they’ll be cheap. At the end of the day though if the product doesn’t sell it won’t continue.

At least now we can see a future though we can start to bring in new players again, which should hopefully boost the number of players.

There are a lot of comments about the cost of GW figures.
For example 10 plastic Mirkwood Rangers cost £25, which is £2.50 each.
Another example 3 resin Lake-Town Militia cost £15, which is £5 each.

These can be compared to Perry Miniatures, they have:
40 plastic War of the Roses infantry for £20, which is £0.50 each;
6 metal Agincourt archers with bows for £7, which is £1-17 each.

Therefore, GW models are about five times more expensive then the Perry Miniatures.

Does this mean that I think the GW models are too expensive! My answer is no, I think the Perry Miniatures are massively under priced. They are valuing their expertise too low. They are worth more then that.

However, having said that something is only worth what people will pay for it. Clearly many people are not buying GW models because they think they are too expensive.

So what is the solution. Well GW still make a profit so they are doing things right, so I see no reason why they should change. I suggest that other manufacturers raise their prices, why don't Perry Miniatures raise there prices three fold, this would still be cheaper then GW and make them more profit.

What do you all think.

Well Trickrick, I'll take the bait !

The Perry Bros have been around quite a while and know the industry and their target market. I assume they are not selling at a loss and have priced their minis appropriately. Remember there are many competitors in the historical market. Importantly you also don't really have any licensing issues (if you want to make movie specific figures you just give them a generic name e.g Home Guard not Dad's Army).

I guess "expensive" in that world would be say empress miniatures, 7 quid for 4 metal, highly detailed figures, or the steel fist samurai (eg £20 for set of seven lords, some at £6 for 2 and so on) These are all examples of superbly sculpted minis at the top of their game....

Bear in mind many wargamers do collect multiple armies, which can certainly number in the hundreds, then you can see why such gamers are cost sensitive.

Why would a new niche studio with premium pricing attract many new gamers ? Maybe a few will want to collect and/or paint high quality LOTR figures, but if they couldn't draw the numbers in with the mass marketed Hobbit ?

The oft-quoted/perceived target market of young kids dragging their affluent parents into a GW store and getting them to buy a stack of minis that then get dumped a year later will be lost. So I'm guessing their target market will be their existing hardcore base. Is there even that many of us, there is only a small handful of fan forums and how many gamers do they number ?

I think there are lots of opportunities left in both LOTR and Hobbit ranges, whether new plastics, re-releasing old minis, new variants etc, enough to make a decent profit but this will on depend on approach.

It does seem that GW are listening in the sense that they will continue to support the ranges. So for those that send in their suggestions and rants to GW , I'd say keep doing it, beacuse they may just listen !

Trickrick

I fully understand what you're saying and I think the difference is in attitude.

Whilst the Perry's are obviously running a business and trying to make money, I believe they feel it is just as important to try and make their miniatures as accessible to as many people as they can. And if, by their standards, they are earning a sufficient amount, I expect they see no need to raise the price. Indeed, by keeping it lower they are opening up their products to a larger group of people (not necessarily from a business point of view, just in terms of wanting people to use their miniatures) and probably also feel better about it themselves, not to mention remaining more favourable in the eyes of buyers!

GW on the other hand appear to hold profit and business above other ideas, probably partly because they are a larger (in terms of employees etc.), and less personal company than the Perry's.

I'm not saying that either approach is right or wrong (although I know which I'd prefer to buy from!), just that the aims and motives behind the sales are different, at least in degree.

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Hi Londoncalling
So you are saying high end figures are about £3 each rather then the GW £5 each.

Which suggests Perry Miniatures and others are under valuing themselves by around 2 to 3 times. Or that they are not producing good quality figures, I think they are making good tablet op miniatures.

Are GW trying to woo in new gamers to LoTR, personally I don't think so.

If the point you are making is that GW are still more expensive then the most expensive historical figure makers then I agree. I am just glad that they are still supporting LoTR at all!

I don't think GW models are expensive and I don't think that other manufacturers of historical figures have their prices right. Just because everybody else sells at a lower price then GW does not mean that they are pricing right.

Why do I think this, well its because of my experience in the industry I am in, which has nothing at all to do with models, we price high like GW and many others price low.

The industry I am in is a service industry and I value my time in relation to my experience and skill. I think GW price right and the others undervalue themselves and the products they produce.

I guess most people think I am mad, or am I just right.

Hi abcdefg

All businesses are in business to make money.

I see what you are saying about the Perry Miniatures, I have the same in my industry.

I suppose this makes them nice people and GW and myself as business people.

I think one of the key differences with pricing is on scale of sales. Historical war gaming involves hundreds of very similar models.

SBG on the other hand is primarily a skirmish level game with a wide variety of models in an army. That means players generally will be buying much less models for an army and a wider range of models.

I think the plastic models (like the Mirkwood Rangers) are reasonably priced, but the resin models (particularly for cheap Warriors) are too expensive for gamers.

It all comes down to the number of sales. Plastic models are only viable to produce if they sell in large numbers. Unfortunately this can become a viscous circle where if models don’t sell it isn't commercially viable to make them in plastic which in turn increases prices and lowers sales.

Hi Trickrick, I guess my points boil down to:

GW does play in a different market to the historicals, and that will account for a difference in pricing and as to what those markets will bear.

I am guessing Perry probably sell far more than the 2 other manufacturers I mentioned (chosen for no other reason than they were the first that came to mind), so they may make up for the price difference by shifting sheer numbers. I agree with you in that they make excellent figures also!!

GW could argue that the price differential also has an aspect of service in it. ie you don't just buy the mini, there are all those wonderful stores to maintain, rules and stories to write etc etc. Not that these extras tend to be free however....and at the end of the day it may just come down to shareholder return !

Perhaps what we should be asking is how does GW treat it''s other niche games ? I haven't followed for some years so am out of touch. Anyone comment on that ?

I don't believe GW's pricing sets the standard for the industry just because they are the largest (or one of the largest) companies.

The way they marketed the Hobbit line was very different to Lotr. When the Lotr movies were in theatres I remembered seeing GW Lotr posters many times, seeing starter sets in book stores (where I bought my first set), exposing their products to people who have never heard of warhammer or GW. Lotr was also easy to get into; it was cheaper than 40k and WFB. I have not seen a single ad for the Hobbit range. It's now arguably more expensive than 40k and WFB. They've changed to focus on existing Lotr fans and not so much on getting new players interested. I see GW continuing down the path of making LotR/Hobbit a collectors range.

On the bright side, the quality of the miniatures would likely be higher. GW has almost caught up to FW in prices, haven't they? Higher quality and not paying more (or much mor) than what we pay now.

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No.

That almost doesn't need anything else said. However, just to have something meaningful to add, that isn't how economics works. People buy things based partially off of how they are costed, as evidenced by this community. If a small company is making money to support itself, but sees that one of their big competitors is charging more than them for a similar product, the solution would not be to match their prices. That would drive their own consumer base to look at the big competitor and consider the alternatives. Not only would it be bad for the community, it would be bad for the companies.

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