My House Rules

Slythar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:15 pm

I thought I'd share them if anyone is interested. We've been mixing them up for awhile now and hopefully this one will stick but who knows. I've made them on Google Docs and can be shared. The points list can be printed on one sheet double-sided which is handy for building. If anyone wishes to criticize I would encourage you to try the rules with power gaming in mind and try to break them but hopefully maybe just points adjustments will all be needed.

WOTR House Rules-Hard http://docs.google.com/document/d/1ZRxpmnjo_xBOEQ8orL_YFr_Z6GS53IT88FHDyXiblxc/edit
WOTR House Rules-Points http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgofZD-HPDLIdFNUaGxuVV80TmFmc2dCT0RDdFJObEE

Telchar · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 8:17 pm

The rules look good generally, but there are some things which I don't get.
-Could you explain the declining of a Duel using an example, I have a feeling I'm mixing up the heroes.
-Why does Spirit Grasp get an even bigger attack bonus? I know it doesn't work against High Elven Cohort, but it will slaughter most units with a bit of magic (Sunder Spirit?)
-Goblins already have a Strength of 2, exept Blackshields, so the extra penalty seems a bit overkill.
-You make an overcosted Gildor even worse. Why?
-Do the Warg Riders pay 5 pts for Bows and another 5 for shields? If not so, then why?
-I think Khamûl is still overpowered. My suggestion would be to make him save hits, not bounce them.
-Why is the Mumak's crew increased?

Draugluin · **Posted:** Thu Jan 26, 2012 10:04 pm

Goblins have 3 strength in the book.

Slythar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:59 am

It might take awhile to explain them all at once so I'll start with the first one.

Could you explain the declining of a Duel using an example, I have a feeling I'm mixing up the heroes.

First I'll explain the reason. Rule wise, Herioc Duel/Epic Strike combo versus non-Epic Strike hero's results in a much lopsided Fight. For 2 might you are almost assured to kill the Hero your after and a company or 2.
Balance wise I use this rule to have another option besides calling Herioc Fight and to even the odds of the fight. Spending a might point or two to possibly save Saruman/Gandalf is well worth it rather then letting him die.
Also I wanted to keep Epic Strike's rule to increase Fight to 10 because it has some good uses other than dueling.

Faramir is fighting directly with 4c of WoMT vs. Saruman and Lurtz with 4c of Isengard Uruk-Hai w/Shields

In the Fight Phase when Herioc Actions are called, Faramir calls a Herioc Duel on Saruman.
When the duel is called Saruman can either accept or decline the duel.
Saruman declares to decline the duel.
Herioc actions continue to be called with evils turn next since a Herioc Decline doesn't affect the order for calling actions.
Once all Heriocs are declared we move onto working them out.

Faramir has a Fight of 5 and adds one for calling it.
Saruman has a Fight of 4 but since he shares his companies fight he uses the highest fight available which is Lurtz at a Fight of 6.

Quote:

Ex. 1
Faramir wants Saruman dead so he calls Epic Strike raising his Fight to 10.
Lurtz in turn calls Epic Strike to bolster Saruman's to a Fight of 10.

Faramir rolls a 1 (totalling 12)
Saruman rolls a 6 (totalling 16)
Saruman gets 4 dice on the table but since he Declined the Duel no rolls are made. Faramir regains a might point and we move onto the next Herioc Action.

Quote:

Ex. 2
Faramir wants Saruman dead so he calls Epic Strike raising his Fight to 10.
Lurtz in turn calls Epic Strike to bolster Saruman to a Fight of 10.

Faramir rolls a 6 (totalling 17)
Saruman rolls a 1 (totalling 11)
Faramir gets 6 rolls on the table and kills Saruman along with 6 Uruk's. Faramir regains a might point and we move onto the next Herioc Action.

Quote:

Ex.3
Faramir wants a free shot at Saruman so he does not call Epic Strike.
Lurtz ensures total protection of his master and calls Epic Strike to bolster Saruman to a Fight of 10.

Faramir rolls a 6 (totalling 12)
Saruman rolls a 1 (totalling 11)
Faramir gets 1 roll on the chart causing 1 wound. Saruman shrugs it off and Faramir regains a might point and we move onto the next Herioc Action.

Slythar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 4:42 am

Why does Spirit Grasp get an even bigger attack bonus?

Spirit Formations are generally over-costed. They can take automatic hits from Light of the Valor and Gandalf's Blinding light. And they usually come with a low fight and defense value. So I made them into glass cannons by letting them re-roll misses versus armor. As long as they are respected, they can be handled just like other elite units. Before Inspired Rohan militia at 20 points per company would narrowly defeat 1-on-1 60 point Ghost Warriors. Now you'll need 3 times the number of Militia to kill the Ghost Warriors. So more importance is put on countering them and wizards do a fare job of that.

Slythar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:08 am

Goblins already have a Strength of 2, exept Blackshields, so the extra penalty seems a bit overkill.
Their base Strength is 3 and Blackshields are 4. The penalty is still harsh and I expect a lot of moans but they have way too many special rules and instead of taking them away and reducing them to orcs I added Poison across the board. They are still bad ass and cheap.

You make an overcosted Gildor even worse. Why?
All Legendary Formations base cost is 75 points.

Do the Warg Riders pay 5 pts for Bows and another 5 for shields? If not so, then why?
No... for 5 points they come equipped with both Bows and Shields. The reason being Wargs with Bows are useless. What do they get... 2 shots per company? So its a throw in. Originally I was going to let them come with bows for free but I didn't want to make them more appealing than Moria Wargs so I left them.

I think Khamûl is still overpowered. My suggestion would be to make him save hits, not bounce them.
I can see your point especially with 10 point units I've included now. I really want to keep his bounce hits rule. Its unique and fun, it just needs to be toned down. I need to play test Khamul and see for myself but I'd rather tinker with Range/Line of Sight/Arc of Sight if anything.

Why is the Mumak's crew increased?
They Rampage quite easily so I wanted to reduce the chance.

Draugluin · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:13 am

There isn't any bonus to the hero declining the duel. The only difference is that they have no chance of killing someone, yet the other hero actually has as good a chance of winning AND regaining his will.

NotLegolasJustTipsy · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:35 pm

I think to make Duelling better would be to not allow anyone to call epic strike for a duel. Just use there natural fight values with the bonus 1 for calling the duel. It still given the big hitters great chances of killing there opponent, an example being that Aragon v Druzhag would still massively favour Aragon, but just make it more realistic! Thoughts?

Telchar · **Posted:** Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:24 pm

My ideas are added in blue:

Slythar wrote:

Goblins already have a Strength of 2, exept Blackshields, so the extra penalty seems a bit overkill.
Their base Strength is 3 and Blackshields are 4. The penalty is still harsh and I expect a lot of moans but they have way too many special rules and instead of taking them away and reducing them to orcs I added Poison across the board. They are still bad ass and cheap. I don't agree on their badassness. For the same points they have less fight and Shoot values then Orcs, and get worse bows. Pathfinders doesn't compensate for that IMO. The poisoned weapons for 1S would make them a bit better though, so I will stop moaning.

You make an overcosted Gildor even worse. Why?
All Legendary Formations base cost is 75 points. So? Gildor costs way too much with mastery 2, and then you make him mastery 1. That doesn't make sense to me.

Do the Warg Riders pay 5 pts for Bows and another 5 for shields? If not so, then why?
No... for 5 points they come equipped with both Bows and Shields. The reason being Wargs with Bows are useless. What do they get... 2 shots per company? So its a throw in. Originally I was going to let them come with bows for free but I didn't want to make them more appealing than Moria Wargs so I left them. I see, thanks for the explanation

I think Khamûl is still overpowered. My suggestion would be to make him save hits, not bounce them.
I can see your point especially with 10 point units I've included now. I really want to keep his bounce hits rule. Its unique and fun, it just needs to be toned down. I need to play test Khamul and see for myself but I'd rather tinker with Range/Line of Sight/Arc of Sight if anything. I get the point

Why is the Mumak's crew increased?
They Rampage quite easily so I wanted to reduce the chance.The rampaging is more then half the fun. They will be much too cheap too, seeing they have a good chance of destroying a full formation of 3-4 coys in a turn when played properly (ie. powergamingly, which is what houserules are there to stop

Please note that I have no idea about the points costs, I'm far too lazy to look them through

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Slythar · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 12:28 am

Hey Legolas. I know what your saying. We sometimes just play Captains and I think Cair Andros has a scenario that just uses Captains. We tried the +2 Fight Epic Strike and that works well too but we are missing the extra attacks granted from a Fight of 10. Fight 10 is just grander! I wanted to lend the dueler some Might sapping ability besides Black Dart, that the good side could use so it can alternately be used for that purpose. But that's the cost to keep your casters in the front line which can be done.

Thanks for the tips Telchar. I don't know why but in our games the Mumak being considered raised terrain, just gets destroyed and rampages first turn. Even with the +1 Def in the shoot phase doesn't help. I think we can both agree the Mumak is a wild-card for sure and can always turn a game.

I drop Gildor's master 2 to 1 because he is cheaper (75 from 160). He's Fight 7 with 2 Might and Nature Spells... a pretty good deal. And he's still cheaper than a caster command unit with a banner bearer added. I don't think he needs an extra mastery. Its 75 points across the board for all Legendary Formations so I had to balance some Legendary Hero's.

Don't worry about reading the point costs... its a long-winded for sure but Elves are much cheaper.

Telchar · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 6:29 pm

Slythar wrote:

I drop Gildor's master 2 to 1 because he is cheaper (75 from 160). He's Fight 7 with 2 Might and Nature Spells... a pretty good deal. And he's still cheaper than a caster command unit with a banner bearer added. I don't think he needs an extra mastery. Its 75 points across the board for all Legendary Formations so I had to balance some Legendary Hero's.

Don't worry about reading the point costs... its a long-winded for sure but Elves are much cheaper.

Ah, I see. I knew I should have read the points...

Good that Elves are cheaper.

DurinsShade · **Joined:** Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:16 pm **Posts:** 8

NotLegolasJustTipsy wrote:

I think to make Duelling better would be to not allow anyone to call epic strike for a duel. Just use there natural fight values with the bonus 1 for calling the duel. It still given the big hitters great chances of killing there opponent, an example being that Aragon v Druzhag would still massively favour Aragon, but just make it more realistic! Thoughts?

I think more or less along these lines, personally.

the only potential variant would be if ES affected heroic duel at all it would give a +2 if anything at all?

I think ES is fine as a company/formation game mechanic but totally broken if it is allowed to interact with Heroic duels at all, perhaps ES simply should not apply to Heroic Duels even if a hero in a company calls it re. a company based fight ie. the ES stops where the Duel begins?

Xelee · **Posted:** Sat Jan 28, 2012 7:57 pm

DurinsShade wrote:

the only potential variant would be if ES affected heroic duel at all it would give a +2 if anything at all?

That is pretty much the balance I settled on for the community houserules doc I drew up works as normal outside of duels and gives base fight +2 (ie raises you up from 0, if applicable) in duels. Out of the suggestions I got, this seems the best balance. Without it working in duels at all, it creates another reason why the Darkness list needs to be junked, likewise 'blinding light' and terror becomes much more influential overall.

Cheers

GothmogtheWerewolf · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:07 pm

Hi Slythar, nice rules.

Firstly, Fight 10 heroes don't need Epic Strike. Secondly Warriors of Arnor should be 30pts, they're actually better than WoMT but you've costed them less. The Basic magicians (you should right magicians rather than 'caster captains' could do with being even cheaper.

You said formations with WSA could AtD as if they had a hero in it, what happens if they do have a hero in it eg Court of the Dead King, Ghosts, Ghostly Riders?

Then, the theme behind declining a duel makes no sense. The act of calling a duel is not the moment he shouts a challenge to hero (epic challenge), but the moment the hero draws his weapon (hence the +1 bonus), thus if you delined the duel, you woul auto-die, as you declines as you are being attacked.

The Spirit Grasp's troop problem is not that they don't do enpuh damage, but that they are tooo fragile to take hits, an increased defence of 7 (for free) may help this. At the moment the Ghosts/Spectres are still too overcosted, no more than 35pts at current would be appropriate. Also, the Werewolve's cost is far too high atm, maybe 70-80pts.

I think Dain is too cheap at 175 as is Gimli at 135pts, Epic Rampage is very powerful., and Arwen is not cheap enough, Also, shields should cost 5pts per company not 10pts, and that is too high, also, Warg Riders with bows & shields or neither seems silly, you could give them bows on base profile, they alrerady auto-come with thrown weapons anyway.

The pts for the Trolls are too high, Isengard Trolls for example are not worth 110pts, I think all the Moprdor and Isenard Troll varieties should have a reduced cost eg Mordor Troll 85pts, Mordor Troll Chief 135pts, Mordor Troll Drummer 95pts, Isengard Troll 90pts, Isengard Troll Captain 125pts. Also, Buhrdur should be increased to 135pts (he is actually a little overpowered)

Also, Giant Spiders should not have reduced cost, they are actually slihghtly better han Morgul Knighhts, leave them both at original cost.

Grima Wormtongue should also cost less. Also Haradrim are not 'Eastern'. Kataphrakts should cost less. Dragon Knight is too cheap. Gothmog should cost more, especially with yet another special rule.

Glorfindel should also be less.

I agree with you about Elven Glaives, and about the size of the Evil Legendaries, and alsov about Druzhag) Sauron should not cost 6000pts, even at EHtK only 450-525pts, (even less if VH2K) (Fallenn Realms should NOT have Winged Nazgul in main list)

Serpent Guards and Riders could do with +1 Defence for Heavy armour. Also, I thnk Mahud Warriors and Raiders should have poisoned weapons and count as always having the Warior Pride Fate, and the Raiders should have lances - this should be for free asthey already cost too much.

KoDA should cost less to as well.

Sorry about the length.

Slythar · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:09 pm

Quote:

Firstly, Fight 10 heroes don't need Epic Strike.

I put that in there so incase their fight was reduced to 0 they can refresh it back to 10.

Quote:

Warriors of Arnor should be 30pts

Thanks. I just missed that. :yay:

Quote:

The Basic magicians

I wasn't sure how to describe them but their were not Captains that cast spells so I'll fix that.

Quote:

'We Stand Alone' can 'At the Double'

Nothing happens but its not necessary to have a Captain to ATB.

Quote:

The Spirit Grasp's troop problem is not that they don't do enough damage, but that they are too fragile to take hits.

Ya they are fragile but they hit very hard. Try that rule out and you'll see. Try using Castellain's at Def 7. They are unreal. Also the Werewolves, since they are a Spirit Formation get the same rule but I haven't play tested them. I think your right but I didn't want to adjust it till it was proven.

The rest sounds great actually some really good arguements. I'll work them in.

Slythar · **Posted:** Mon Jan 30, 2012 7:46 pm

Changes
Fixed the Warriors of Arnor to 30 points.
Changed the wording of 'Caster command to Magician'
Adjust points for trolls
60 - Cave Troll
80 - Mordor Troll
95 - Isengard Troll
90 - Troll Drummer
120 - Isengard Troll Captain
135 - Mordor Troll Captain
135 - Buhrdur

Maybe we can discuss Trolls because I love trolls, I'll open a new thread. They just look awesome. I've change the rules for Throwing Weapons and Single Company Formations so that might affect cost.

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