All times are UTC


It is currently Mon Sep 30, 2024 8:18 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:10 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Everywhere...
Images: 1
In my attempt to "balance" War of the Ring I've spent some time adjusting Point Values and a few of the main rules, as I feel that the rules for War of the Ring are good, but the points needed to be adjusted

Changes to the Rules:

Epic Strike adds 2 to the Hero’s Fight Value, instead of increasing it to 10.
Wings of Terror increase the formations move and charge distance by 2” instead of increasing it up to move 12”, charge D6 + 8”.
Strength from Corruption does D3 automatic hits against enemy formations, instead of D6, although it still does D6 automatic hits to friendly formations as normal.
Pall of Night only stops enemy units charging on a role of 6.
Counsellor may only be used once per Hero per turn.
Crossbows may not At the Double! and use a Heroic Shoot.
Overlord may only be used by a formation that contains a Hero or Epic Hero.
A role of “1” always fails, even with bonuses.

Changes to the Points:

All Banner Bearers cost 25 points instead of 35.
All Horn-blowers and Drummers costs 10 points instead of 15.
All Taskmasters cost 20 points instead of 25.
All Captains, Chieftains or similarly named Heroes Points costs is now based on the following:
Fight 2/3: 25 Points instead of 50.
Fight 4: 30 Points instead of 50.
Fight 5: 35 Points instead of 50.
Fight 6: 40 Points instead of 50.
Fight 7: 45 Points instead of 50.

Army Specific Changes:

Gondor and Arnor:
All formations of Minas Tirith Warriors cost 30 Points instead of 25.
All formations of Warriors of the Dead cost 50 Points instead of 60.
All formations of Riders of the Dead cost 50 Points instead of 60.
Forlong the Fat costs 50 Points instead of 75.
Angbor the Fearless costs 50 Points instead of 75.
Osgiliath Veterans cost 95 Points + 35 per company instead of 120 Points + 35 per company.
Denethor’s Guard cost 85 Points + 35 per company instead of 120 Points + 35 per company.
Court of the Dead King cost 115 Points + 50 per company instead of 145 Points + 30 per company.
Bonuses may not be not be taken for both Narsil and Anduril if both are in one formation; the user must choose which applies.

The Kingdom of Rohan:
The King’s Guard cost 80 Points + 35 per company instead of 100 Points + 35 per company.
Erkenbrand’s Riders cost 95 Points + 40 per company instead of 115 Points + 40 per company.
Théodred’s Knights cost 90 Points + 40 per company instead of 135 Points + 45 per company.
Grimbold’s Helmingas cost 60 Points + 30 per company instead of 85 Points + 30 per company.
Elfhelm’s Riders cost 75 Points + 35 per company instead of 90 Points + 40 per company.

The Elven Kingdoms:
All formations of Galadhrim Regiments cost 40 Points instead of 45.
All formations of Galadhrim Archer Regiments cost 45 Points instead of 50.
All formations of High Elf Regiments cost 50 Points instead of 55.
All formations of High Elf Archer Regiments cost 55 Points instead of 60.
All formations of High Elf Cohorts cost 55 Points instead of 60.
All formations of Guards of the Galadhrim Court cost 60 Points instead of 70.
High Elf Commanders (High Elf Cohort Hero) cost 55 Points instead of 50.
Elven Stormcallers cost 65 Points instead of 100.
Rivendell Guard cost 85 Points + 60 per company instead of 125 Points + 65 per company.
Guardians of Caras Galadhon cost 105 Points + 60 per company instead of 125 Points + 70 per company

The Dwarf Holds:
Múrin’s Guard costs 95 Points + 45 per company instead of 110 Points + 40.
Drár’s Hunters costs 65 Points + 40 per company instead of 95 Points + 35.
Durin’s Guard costs 165 Points + 50 per company instead of 110 Points + 50.

The Forgotten Kingdoms:
Ents cost 115 Points instead of 125.
Eagles cost 125 Points instead of 140.
Treebeard costs cost 205 points instead of 225.
Gwaihir costs 175 Points instead of 200.
If Radagast uses Epic Tranquillity then his formation may not charge in addition to the current effects.

Mordor:
All formations of Morannon Orc Warbands cost 25 Points instead of 20.
Mordor Trolls cost 90 Points instead of 100.
Mordor Troll Drummers cost 130 Points instead of 150.
Mordor Troll Chieftains cost 175 Points instead of 200.
Twilight Ringwraiths cost 125 Points instead of 150.
Kârdush the Firecaller costs 80 points instead of 100.
Gothmog costs 135 Points instead of 110.
Gollum costs 35 Points instead of 50.
Orc Shamans cost 55 Points instead of 100.
Black Uruk Shamans cost 60 Points instead of 100.
Shagrat’s Tower Guard costs 100 Points + 25 per company instead of 125 Points + 25.
Gorbag’s Morgul Rats costs 90 Points + 15 per company instead of 125 Points + 15 per company.
Grishnákh’s Trackers costs 60 Points + 30 per company instead of 75 Points + 30 per company.
Winged Nazgûl cost 220 Points instead of 250.

The Fortress of Isengard:
Isengard Trolls cost 90 Points instead of 100.
Isengard Troll Chieftains cost 130 Points instead of 150.
Orc Shamans cost 55 Points instead of 100.
Uruk-Hai Shamans cost 60 Points instead of 100.
Uglúk’s Raiders costs 80 Points + 35 per company instead of 115 Points + 30 per company.
Vrashkû’s Talons costs 65 Points + 40 per company instead of 95 Points + 35 per company.
Mauhúr’s Marauders costs 80 Points + 35 per company instead of 100 Points + 30 per company.
Thrydan Wolfsbane costs 60 Points instead of 50.
Saruman the White Hand costs 215 Points instead of 240.

The Misty Mountains:
Goblin Shamans cost 55 Points instead of 100.
All formations of Gundabad Blackshields cost 25 Points instead of 20.
Any summoned Formations that wished to be used for Drûzhag the Beastcallers “Summon Beasts” special rule must be paid for. However this does not require Might Points.

The Fallen Realms:
Corsair Bo’suns cost 35 Points instead of 50.
Hâsharin cost 40 Points instead of 50.
All formations of Corsair Raiding Party’s have Thrown Weapons that have a Strength value of 2.
Easterling War Priests cost 60 Points instead of 100.
Mahûd Raider Warbands may be given Lances for 5 Points per company.
Passives only grant shield bonuses from shooting attacks (including magic attacks in their front arc).
Abrakhân Guard costs 70 Points + 30 per company instead of 100 Points + 30 per company.

Angmar:
Orc Shamans cost 55 Points instead of 100.
All formations of Ghostly Legion cost 50 Points instead of 60.
All formations of Ghostly Riders cost 50 Points instead of 60.
All formations of Spectral Hosts cost 50 Points instead of 60.
All formations of Court of Fallen Kings may be joined by any Epic Hero that is a Spirit.

Ringwraiths:
Ringwraiths cost 140 Points instead of 125. There are Nine may be taken as an upgrade for the following points (if nine Ringwraiths and/or Winged Nazgûl, one must be the Witch-King of Angmar):
The Witch-King of Angmar – 75 Points
Khamûl the Easterling – 60 Points
The Undying – 15 Points
The Tainted – 15 Points
The Dark Marshal – 25 Points
The Shadow Lord – 20 Points
The Dwimmerlaik – 30 Points
The Betrayer – 50 Points
The Knight of Umbar – 25 Points.


This was a word document previously, I've just copy and pasted it from there, the name of each unit was previously in italics. If you want the word document, just pm me your email and I'll send it to you

Comments and Criticism please :)

_________________
C.A.P.T.A.I.N. = Crazy And Proud To Admit It Now
http://chrisgomhobbyblog.blogspot.com/


Last edited by Chris GoM on Wed Dec 21, 2011 5:05 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:12 am 
Loremaster
Loremaster
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2006 12:53 pm
Posts: 1827
Location: CO, USA
Just looking thru a few and have a quick question: Under the Elves you seem to have tweaked the normal warriors for everything except Wood Elves. Was there a reason?

_________________
Wait ye the finish! The fight is not yours.
Beowulf

http://TacticsInMiniature.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:30 am 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 8:28 pm
Posts: 604
Location: Hungary
I agree with the epic stike modifycation.
What is your problem with this: "Crossbows may not At the Double! and use a Heroic Shoot". I think they are a strong unit, and usually slow cause of their weapons, but it is no impossible to defeat them.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:23 am 
Craftsman
Craftsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2011 2:38 pm
Posts: 296
Location: Alberta, Canada
Images: 1
I suggest looking at Xelee's houserules. They are concise but fairly effective at balancing the game without re-writing the entire rule book (or in this case, a lot of rules and costs for formations). I will keep these rules in mind though for my next game of WotR so my gaming group might consider conducting some field tests of our own.

_________________
http://knightscharge.wordpress.com/
- My miniature gaming blog, sorry for lack of LOTR content right now.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:33 am 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 9:20 pm
Posts: 817
Location: Chch, NZ
Hi Chris GoM, what springs out at me when I see that list is that it almost seems made for a new army spreadsheet as a device to handle the changes (this goes for a number of other sets that have taken this approach too). You could even edit the existing one by just altering units to your new values?

_________________
http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:47 am 
Craftsman
Craftsman
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Tue Jul 20, 2010 6:02 am
Posts: 319
Location: Langley, BC, Canada
Images: 3
Like
A role of “1” always fails, even with bonuses.
I like a natural 1 is always a miss. I've used it on and off but generally if you roll a 1, you shouldn't be rewarded with anything.

Drûzhag the Beastcallers “Summon Beasts”
I thought of this as well and it allows Druzag to summon beasts held in reserve. But it still costs a might point. Aragorns Epic Journey is similiar and it costs 2 might, plus they cannot shoot or charge. Still a cheesy rule.

Don't Like

Dirt cheap casters
It can be a problem. A couple shades or Dwimmerlaik and its not likely they will ever face a duel so evil just got a whole lot deadlier. If Epic Hero's didn't have spells I think you would still see the 100 point casters taken.

For simplicity sakes I would make captains cost the same either at a set value or formula (5pts per fight). That's one line and can eliminate a page of information.

Nice work all-around. Its quite the undertaking.

_________________
http://drinkingwotr.blogspot.com/ - Links to my CrAzY House Rules, Games and 'poor man's' terrain.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:32 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Everywhere...
Images: 1
I've updated the rules (see first post)

Thank you all for your comments, I will make adjustments where I think you've made good points.

Beowulf03809 wrote:
Just looking thru a few and have a quick question: Under the Elves you seem to have tweaked the normal warriors for everything except Wood Elves. Was there a reason?


Wood Elves have Enchanted cloaks, which I think makes up for their low defence, don't forget that if the enemy is close enough to charge them, then it's likely they'll be able to use their throwing daggers.

Bastion.HUN wrote:
I agree with the epic stike modifycation.
What is your problem with this: "Crossbows may not At the Double! and use a Heroic Shoot". I think they are a strong unit, and usually slow cause of their weapons, but it is no impossible to defeat them.


Crossbows can still move normally and use a Heroic Shoot, but I feel that if they could At the Double and then Heroic shoot then they'd easily be able to shoot an enemy in the flank, negating any shield bonuses and making it too easy to kill. Don't forget only Evil armies have access to Crossbows, so Good can't even ally them in.

WayUnderTheMountain wrote:
I suggest looking at Xelee's houserules. They are concise but fairly effective at balancing the game without re-writing the entire rule book (or in this case, a lot of rules and costs for formations). I will keep these rules in mind though for my next game of WotR so my gaming group might consider conducting some field tests of our own.


I have seen Xelee's house rules, which is where I got the idea for the Epic Strike.

Xelee wrote:
Hi Chris GoM, what springs out at me when I see that list is that it almost seems made for a new army spreadsheet as a device to handle the changes (this goes for a number of other sets that have taken this approach too). You could even edit the existing one by just altering units to your new values?


I hadn't really thought about spreadsheets when I designed these rules.

Slythar wrote:
Like
A role of “1” always fails, even with bonuses.
I like a natural 1 is always a miss. I've used it on and off but generally if you roll a 1, you shouldn't be rewarded with anything.
Drûzhag the Beastcallers “Summon Beasts”
I thought of this as well and it allows Druzhag to summon beasts held in reserve. But it still costs a might point. Aragorns Epic Journey is similiar and it costs 2 might, plus they cannot shoot or charge. Still a cheesy rule.

Don't Like

Dirt cheap casters
It can be a problem. A couple shades or Dwimmerlaik and its not likely they will ever face a duel so evil just got a whole lot deadlier. If Epic Hero's didn't have spells I think you would still see the 100 point casters taken.
For simplicity sakes I would make captains cost the same either at a set value or formula (5pts per fight). That's one line and can eliminate a page of information.

Nice work all-around. Its quite the undertaking.


Thank you. I hadn't thought about using a formula, I just went through the rulebook and looked at the different rules for Captains, Chieftains etc. Will update the rules in a bit.

Again, thank you all for taking the time to post.

_________________
C.A.P.T.A.I.N. = Crazy And Proud To Admit It Now
http://chrisgomhobbyblog.blogspot.com/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:30 pm 
Kinsman
Kinsman
Offline

Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2011 5:58 pm
Posts: 236
ah brilliant. i love the idea of putting up the costs of the ringwraiths!
such a simple thing but means people cannot have as many ringwraiths in one small army
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Wed Dec 14, 2011 3:54 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Everywhere...
Images: 1
Thanks Might.Uruk!!!

I must admit I've used Khamul and the Betrayer at the same time in multiple 1000 Points games, and I've seen the devastation they've caused, as well as a few of the other Ringwraiths.

_________________
C.A.P.T.A.I.N. = Crazy And Proud To Admit It Now
http://chrisgomhobbyblog.blogspot.com/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 12:30 am 
Elven Elder
Elven Elder
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2011 3:04 pm
Posts: 6308
Location: Wandering around looking for Middle-earth
Images: 58
May I ask, why have you reduced Ghosts a little, but not Spectres when they are much much much worse for their pts, they shouldn't cost motre than 35-40pts at absolute max.

_________________
"I am the Flying Spagetti Monster. Thou shall have no other monsters before me"
-FSM.
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: "Balancing" War of the Ring
PostPosted: Thu Dec 15, 2011 4:25 pm 
Elven Warrior
Elven Warrior
User avatar
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:39 pm
Posts: 718
Location: Everywhere...
Images: 1
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
May I ask, why have you reduced Ghosts a little, but not Spectres when they are much much much worse for their pts, they shouldn't cost motre than 35-40pts at absolute max.


Thanks for spotting that. Spectres aren't much worse than Ghosts, just over-pointed. I personally prefer Spectres over Ghosts, because Fight Value makes little difference, and their slightly lower defence is nullified by their special rule and the use of dismay spells

_________________
C.A.P.T.A.I.N. = Crazy And Proud To Admit It Now
http://chrisgomhobbyblog.blogspot.com/
Top
  Profile  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 11 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: