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WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
http://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=28761		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Warlord [ Wed May 21, 2014 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
About two weeks ago, I wanted to buy a few more movement trays for my WOTR armies and noticed the US site no longer carried the infantry movement trays, only the cavalry trays. I checked back yesterday and not only are cavalry trays are no longer available, the rulebook and Battlehosts are no longer available.

So if it wasn't official before, it is official now, War of the Ring is no longer supported by GW. One would hope that this means either a new edition or a new mass battles system will be issued after the third Hobbit movie. But since GW already did The Battle of Five Armies in 10mm, I don't foresee another version in 28mm.

So for those of us who longed for a mass battles system to fight the Pelennor Fields, Dagorlad, Helm's Deep, Fornost or Azanulbizar, we are on our own with what we have.

I still enjoy the system and will continue to organize games, but with the lack of support I will have greater difficulty finding opponents. Everyone likes the game when I run it and would like to get into it, but without support from the manufacturer, those of us who still play will have to field the armies and hope someone is willing to play.
Author:  Ukfreddybear [ Sun May 25, 2014 8:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
It is a shame of course, but GWs strategy of higher priced minis in smaller quantity boxes really is what killed the game for many people in a system that requires hundreds of figures. I tried it a few times but did not enjoy it at all. Getting out 200 painstakingly painted minis only to put 50 of them back in the case after the very first turn did not appeal to me. I also found that magic in the game was severely unbalanced.

Movement trays are readily available on the internet and the rulebooks are pretty cheap on second hand auction sites, so the only thing holding people back from playing is perhaps a lack of opponent.
Author:  Jobu [ Sun May 25, 2014 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
I found the mechanics if the game to be good. Move, shoot( drive back), charge, fight. Easy to understand and do. The magic was a little overpowered, leaning towards fantasy battle, but what really broke the game were the epic hero special rules and some of the epic heroics. Those were just stupid overpowered and not that much fun to play with or against. It's like always playing against a dual shade with corsair reaver army all the time in SBG.
Author:  Jamros [ Sun May 25, 2014 8:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
I think it was only a matter of time before WotR was pulled. I think it was invented to extend the life of the Lord of the Rings miniatures range until the inevitable release of the Hobbit films. The release of the new army books for SBG really signaled that the whole WotR stunt was over.

That being said, even while dismissing it as a cash-in/life extension, WotR was quite fun. The core mechanics were easy to grasp, a good example of how massed battles should be done. The rulebook was very well made as well. WotR is sort of how I think WHFB should be. In the end though, massed battles in 28mm are just ridiculously impractical and expensive--and that includes WHFB and WotR.

I don't think the Battle of Five Armies Boxed Game would negate GW from approaching the battle again in 28mm form. Though it was possibly meant to be a series (note the prefix "Great Battles of Middle-earth"), it seems to have been a quiet, one-off, book-inspired product that barely registered with most hobbyists.

As for how the Battle of Five Armies will be done this time around, I suspect it will be done the same way large LotR battles were done before the release of WotR: simply a large SBG battle. But who knows.
Author:  Rangefinder [ Mon May 26, 2014 2:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
If you are in USA, i can trade some trays to you.
I am looking for rohan stuff.
Author:  John [ Tue May 27, 2014 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
That is disappointing! I have loads of bases but planned to buy many many more particularly infantry ones. I think I have enough to base about 2/3 of my army.

How many do you have Rangefinder?
Author:  daersalon [ Tue May 27, 2014 10:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
Officially Dead:

Well, indeed, it seemed inevitable. I don't deny they tried to push it hard and even officially dropping support for SBG in WD etc. I used to go to the GW stores local to me every week in this period during their regular weekly events sometimes twice a week when I took my son to the 'junior' sunday afternoon gaming session.

The result was ... for new players the outlay for a reasonable WotR army is rather significant. You couldnt just spend 30-50 GBP on a battlebox and get underway like some other current systems. For more experienced players already with SBG armies, the ones who could have spent 'a little more' to upgrade to the bigger system, they were fully invested in the existing and well-honed system. And WotR had a few holes... not in the combat system which is rather slick and playtested (it feels so). But in the points costing and faction balancing which seems a little arbitrary, which is important for most of us players having a small army and playing points matches and not able to regularly recreate the special scenarios in the book.

I still play it most weeks though! After all it is LotR... AND big army battles!!! what isn't good about that???

Trays. Go for a lot these days i notice on eBay. I have loads (90+ cav and inf) but wanting to magnetise everything to store everything in their trays I need more and started to make my own in resin. But there are good and cheap mdf laser cut choices out there which work out less than £0.80 a tray, (and what I use as a base to sculpt greenstuff over and cast in silicone and resin).

If you hunt online : There are even resin casts available. Ranging from some beautiful but pricey woodland ones with matching model bases. To a company making bases for all the special formations as well as the standard. Need a correct size sculpted base for the three hunters? the nine are abroad? several Ballistae? they are £1-£2 each. The quality isnt the best but they are correct size and with a small amount of work save a huge amount of time making your own custom ones :)
Author:  mertaal [ Tue May 27, 2014 10:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
Might be heresy in this forum, but has anyone tried mass LotR battles using the Hail Caesar rules set?

I heard someone modded it for LotR, but the rules appear to be tied up in a Yahoo group I can't join for some reason...
Author:  Rangefinder [ Tue May 27, 2014 1:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
I hope they continue WOTR. It is cool to have a dual game to run with the same core models.
I have mentioned this before, but I think it's good to repeat...
I would try to completely fill the front ranks of a formation.
Buy the appropriate Epic heroes, Bannermen, etc...,
Use movement trays (of course) to fill out the ranks behind.
But instead of filling them out with troops, use jelly beans or something as proxies.
I know, I know it seems cheezy. But what is cheezier than Gimli or Dain (been a while,
cannot remember who) using that crazy rule that kills your troops until every die has
finally missed, you won't care much that you just pulled 20 jelly beans off the table.
Yeah, you loose some of the "epic-ness".
Yeah, you save about $1,000 USD too.

Loved running WOTR when I had an opponent.
Now it's tough to find SBG players!
Author:  mertaal [ Tue May 27, 2014 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
With all due respect, for me at least, proxying or using "standees" kills the atmosphere of the game. I'd rather just play a smaller game than play a miniatures game without miniatures.

But I'm also one of those people who doesn't want to play a game with or against unpainted miniatures too.
Author:  Rangefinder [ Tue May 27, 2014 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
With you there...
I am trying to paint up anything I am going to table. 8)
To me it encourages a more thoughtful force choices.
For the sake of "mixing it up", I toss out the slightly less epic jelly bean solution, hahaha!
Author:  Warlord [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
I find War of the Ring is best used for what the original demand was for, to recreate the Great Battles of Middle Earth. The Epic Heroes special rules were reflective of events from either the books or the films. The problem became when you try to run point match games that is popular among Games Workshop games and other modern tabletop systems, the Epic Heroes and Magic rules upset the balance of play and the points don't actually reflect this.

The best way to play points match in WOTR is only to allow one Epic Hero per side. The majority of your army (80-90 percent) should be common formations, but this does not appeal to a lot of gamers. Many gamers would not want to have a Mordor Army of 6-8 formations of Mordor Orcs, two of Warg Riders, two trolls, and one named Ringwraith, which is what I field for Mordor. Most would rather field The Nine Are Abroad and filll the rest of their points with trolls and Uruk Hai.
Author:  Rangefinder [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
That is pretty much what happened to me and my opponent.
He would run Dwarfs and I would run Fallen Realms.
They were very large games. 3k when we started then evolved to about 5k.
But when we played they were point matched.
It was just too much for me to handle.
Dwarf Ballistas would take out a Mumak each turn.

I wish we ran it like you Warlord.
Because..., when did Dwarfs and the Fallen Realms meet on the plains of battle???!!!
Author:  daersalon [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
Well. I sorta agree and disagree with Warlord. I would up the numbers though. More than one Epic heroe gives flexibility, but I say no more than 25% of the army should be heroes of some kind. Not 80-90%. Too few heroes and the army lacks mobility and choices to spend Might points to act when vital. Too many and the army is cut down around them, by opposing numbers flanking.

Points... Well as I said above there is an imbalance, but it is in the basic troops of some factions (anybody fancy some squishy elves??) rather than the heroes. If GW had simply sat down and streamlined the points costs after player feedback and more testing of this, as for the numerous SBG iterations, then many more would have embraced this system more enthusiatically.

Every system has its 'broken' areas... especially on its first outing. Its a pity as a few small adjustments would have encouraged far more players to embrace the system and stick with it...
Author:  samoht [ Wed May 28, 2014 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
Well I'm glad WOTR is dead and not SBG if you get my drift.
Author:  Warlord [ Wed May 28, 2014 12:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
daersalon wrote:
Well. I sorta agree and disagree with Warlord. I would up the numbers though. More than one Epic heroe gives flexibility, but I say no more than 25% of the army should be heroes of some kind. Not 80-90%. Too few heroes and the army lacks mobility and choices to spend Might points to act when vital. Too many and the army is cut down around them, by opposing numbers flanking.
...

I don't have the rulebook in front of me, but I believe there is something in there that states one Epic Hero for every 1,000 points. There is no limit to regular heroes (Captains) other than they are limited to one per formation in the command company. I find this works quite well for balance.

Also I have a house rule, no shamans as this is a carrover from Warhammer Fantasy that has no place in Middle Earth IMHO.
Author:  Warlord [ Wed May 28, 2014 12:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
samoht wrote:
Well I'm glad WOTR is dead and not SBG if you get my drift.

Unfortunately SBG is dying and is on life support.

"Dead" Man: I'm not dead!
Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
Large Man: Yes he is.
"Dead" Man: I'm not.
Dead Collector: He isn't.
Large Man: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
"Dead" Man: I'm getting better.
Large Man: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment. :-D
Author:  Rangefinder [ Wed May 28, 2014 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
You might be right...,
but I think the per/1000 point rule is for Fates and Fortunes.

I have been wrong before, and it's possible it might happen again. hahaha...
Author:  Warlord [ Thu May 29, 2014 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
You are correct, the 1,000 points applies to Fortunes and Fates.
Author:  jdredsox [ Thu May 29, 2014 7:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: WOTR Officially Dead to GW: We're on Our Own
Warlord wrote:
samoht wrote:
Well I'm glad WOTR is dead and not SBG if you get my drift.

Unfortunately SBG is dying and is on life support.

"Dead" Man: I'm not dead!
Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.
Large Man: Yes he is.
"Dead" Man: I'm not.
Dead Collector: He isn't.
Large Man: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.
"Dead" Man: I'm getting better.
Large Man: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment. :-D



This is a dead-game, it's kicked the bucket, it's shuffled off this mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleeding choir invisible.

However, I hope you are wrong as I'm just getting back into SBG :(
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