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Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
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Author:  Psycho [ Mon Jan 02, 2012 1:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
HI everyone, i need help for my new army, I've never played Angmar in WOTR but I tried to make a list (i can't have more than 5 mastery level in my army )

The Tainted 125

Druzhag 100

Thrydan Wolfsbane 50

Carn Dum Warband (5 companies) 150

Carn Dum Warband (5 companies, chieftain) 200

Carn Dum Warband (5 companies, chieftain) 200

this is the central block of army, D6 is not high but I hope they can resist

Angmar Orc Warband (3 companies, 2HW) 60

Angmar Orc Warband (3 companies, 2HW) 60

Angmar Orc Warband (2 companies, bows) 40

Angmar Orc Warband (2 companies, bows) 40

they must protect the flanks of army, orcs with 2hw protect and help carn dum formations and archers will die by protecting flanks of the army

Ghostly Riders (3 companies, chieftain) 230

Ghostly Riders (3 companies, chieftain) 230

expensive? yes, low defense? yes, but with spirit walk and M12 the can charge the rear of the formations engaged with carn dum or orcs

ToT: 1485
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 2:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Hi Psycho,

Looks pretty good, in general. I have two comments though: Those 2HW Orcs really need to be the one unit & I'd be inclined to go with one less chieftain on the Carn Dum, since you have so many heroes already. The ghostly Cav seem expensive all up - I think they are arranged the right way for two units worth but would you consider just the one unit and then something else like Buhrdur etc?

I hope whomever designed that event feels clever once they realise they've basically forced you to take the likes of the much worse Druzhag rather than the other Nazgul that comes with that list! :lol:

Cheers
Author:  Telchar [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
I have just one thing to add to the above: where Xelee says "one less chieftain for the Carn Dum" I say "no cheiftains on the Carn Dum". You already have 3 main heroes, so they can make the formations ATD, and then the Chieftains just become duel-dangerous points sinks. those 100 pts could go into say Buhrdur (dump one of the Orcs with bows) or expanding your ghosts and Orcs.
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Telchar wrote:
I have just one thing to add to the above: where Xelee says "one less chieftain for the Carn Dum" I say "no cheiftains on the Carn Dum". You already have 3 main heroes, so they can make the formations ATD, and then the Chieftains just become duel-dangerous points sinks. those 100 pts could go into say Buhrdur (dump one of the Orcs with bows) or expanding your ghosts and Orcs.

Hi Telchar, you need some Chieftains in there to get the best out of their abilities. I'm not a fan of Captains for all forces but they are well worth it for Carn Dum warbands.

Cheers
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
I agree with Xelee, especially the part about Buhrdur, he is an absolute must for Angmar unless you don't like winning. Also the two-handed weapon Orcs should never be in formations that small, one biggy is better. Oh and noone questions your logic in the inclusion of Ghostly Riders, you don't need to explain your reasoning, we know they're the best spirits in the list, although you missed one very important factor, the strike before the enemy formation, so they can often avoid taking many (or any) hits.

Also, I question their logic at restricting magic to mastery 5, it works against Mordor as they can only have one wraith (though we all know which one), but its not the best idea for anyone else.
Author:  Telchar [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 4:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Xelee wrote:
Telchar wrote:
I have just one thing to add to the above: where Xelee says "one less chieftain for the Carn Dum" I say "no cheiftains on the Carn Dum". You already have 3 main heroes, so they can make the formations ATD, and then the Chieftains just become duel-dangerous points sinks. those 100 pts could go into say Buhrdur (dump one of the Orcs with bows) or expanding your ghosts and Orcs.

Hi Telchar, you need some Chieftains in there to get the best out of their abilities. I'm not a fan of Captains for all forces but they are well worth it for Carn Dum warbands.

Cheers


Why? IMO the only use of Captains is to allow ATD, and since you already have Epics doing that, what's the use of captains?
Author:  Xelee [ Thu Jan 05, 2012 7:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Hi Telchar, the Captains can modify the charge rolls, berserk rolls aand allow heroic charges and heroic fights. Have a look at a couple of my batreps and see how much more effective this can make the Carn Dum line vs their targets.

I'm on record as thinking Captains are over-priced but I've play Angmar a lot and, based on that, wouldn't leave them out.
Author:  Telchar [ Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Xelee wrote:
Hi Telchar, the Captains can modify the charge rolls, berserk rolls aand allow heroic charges and heroic fights. Have a look at a couple of my batreps and see how much more effective this can make the Carn Dum line vs their targets.

I'm on record as thinking Captains are over-priced but I've play Angmar a lot and, based on that, wouldn't leave them out.


OK, I see. But still, wouldn't an Heroic, ES-ing, ambushing Troll be a better choice? :?:
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Sun Jan 08, 2012 10:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Telchar wrote:
Xelee wrote:
Hi Telchar, the Captains can modify the charge rolls, berserk rolls aand allow heroic charges and heroic fights. Have a look at a couple of my batreps and see how much more effective this can make the Carn Dum line vs their targets.

I'm on record as thinking Captains are over-priced but I've play Angmar a lot and, based on that, wouldn't leave them out.


OK, I see. But still, wouldn't an Heroic, ES-ing, ambushing Troll be a better choice? :?:


You can have both if you drop one form of ghost riders, and give yo a gfew more free pts.
Author:  Telchar [ Mon Jan 09, 2012 6:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Telchar wrote:
Xelee wrote:
Hi Telchar, the Captains can modify the charge rolls, berserk rolls aand allow heroic charges and heroic fights. Have a look at a couple of my batreps and see how much more effective this can make the Carn Dum line vs their targets.

I'm on record as thinking Captains are over-priced but I've play Angmar a lot and, based on that, wouldn't leave them out.


OK, I see. But still, wouldn't an Heroic, ES-ing, ambushing Troll be a better choice? :?:


You can have both if you drop one form of ghost riders, and give yo a gfew more free pts.


Yup, but the ghosts are very use as well, when they're not the base of your army.

BTW, funny how both the worst armies, Elves and Ghost Angmar, have exactly the same problem.
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
I wouldn't be comparing Elves and Angmar. The Elven list is a whole another level of 'difficult' beyond what the Angmar list is :)

In reality, given Angmar has two integral 125pt Wraiths, Buhrdur, and Carn Dum Barbarians (all very good units in their own right), as well as a few other decent units, the list has the same problem Gondor does: You can easily make bad Gondor lists - just the same as you can make bad Angmar ones.

In fact, I'd say Gondor and Elves have more in common in this regard than do Angmar and Elves :P
Author:  Telchar [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 6:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Xelee wrote:
I wouldn't be comparing Elves and Angmar. The Elven list is a whole another level of 'difficult' beyond what the Angmar list is :)

In reality, given Angmar has two integral 125pt Wraiths, Buhrdur, and Carn Dum Barbarians (all very good units in their own right), as well as a few other decent units, the list has the same problem Gondor does: You can easily make bad Gondor lists - just the same as you can make bad Angmar ones.

In fact, I'd say Gondor and Elves have more in common in this regard than do Angmar and Elves :P


I know, but when you insist on building your Angmar around Ghosts (which most people do), then they are not much different. Both are 50-60 pts for basic troops which have far too low a defence, and rely on clever combo-ing of magic, quick movement without impediment and terror to even stand a chance. I explicitly mentioned I was talking about Ghost-based Angmar, and not Ringwraith, Burhdur, Carn Dum Angmar. It was just an irrelevant observation which struck me as I typed the sentence above it.
Author:  Xelee [ Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Telchar, you can make a bad list with almost any of the factions but an Elven player doesn't have a choice. That is why people think of it as a weak list. You do not have the same problem when making Ghost Angmar, you have a lot of good units to put with your list. :)

The OP's list is an Angmar list with Ghosts in it but is not a weak list either.
Author:  Telchar [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 6:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Xelee wrote:
Telchar, you can make a bad list with almost any of the factions but an Elven player doesn't have a choice. That is why people think of it as a weak list. You do not have the same problem when making Ghost Angmar, you have a lot of good units to put with your list. :)

The OP's list is an Angmar list with Ghosts in it but is not a weak list either.


Yes, but the mainstay of the Op's list is the Carn Dum barbarians and Angmar Orcs. The ghosts are just an extra. A bit like the Warg Riders and Feral Uruks in my Isengard list, the are there, but the army can work perfectly fine when they get killed.

I know you can make bad lists in every faction, but the point is that with Anmar, actually have a good reason to do so (Ghosts are epic, everyone seems too agree on that). There are many bad lists out there, and they are generally taken for two reasons: 1 The player has little experience and does not listen to good advice (like me :-D )
2 The player likes the lists theme.
Now, the first goes for all lists, and that accounts for horrible Mordor lists (yes, the exist) and the like. The second does not happen often to any lists, except Ghost Angmar

I hope that explains it :) .
Author:  GothmogtheWerewolf [ Wed Jan 11, 2012 9:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
Telchar wrote:
Yup, but the ghosts are very use as well, when they're not the base of your army.

BTW, funny how both the worst armies, Elves and Ghost Angmar, have exactly the same problem.



I did not say drop all ghosts i said drop one form(ation) of them.
Author:  Telchar [ Sat Jan 14, 2012 7:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Angmar 1500-I Need Help!
GothmogtheWerewolf wrote:
Telchar wrote:
Yup, but the ghosts are very use as well, when they're not the base of your army.

BTW, funny how both the worst armies, Elves and Ghost Angmar, have exactly the same problem.



I did not say drop all ghosts i said drop one form(ation) of them.


Well, I meant that then I'd say an extra squad of Ghosts would be more useful :) .
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