Hi, recently I've been having a spree of WotR matches, generally 1500 points. I use elves extensively while my opponent uses Isenguard. And another friend of mine uses Misty Mountains

They basics of his army are:
A few large formations of uruks
Saruman
Kardush
Dragush (Misty mountains summoner)

He rarely uses bows, crossbows or monsters, due to the fact that the first time we played he got screwed by Elven cloaks and Legolas. Basically, his army has turned into an elf smashing army.

The Misty Mountains tends to be:
Durbuz
Dragush
2+ cave trolls
Sometimes a cave drake
huge formations using the Battle Host.

His huge numbers keep overwhelming me, and all his summons feels like he's using some 1000 more points than me at times...

My army generally follows:
A few smaller formations of wood elves
some Mirk. Sentinels
Thranduil
Cirdan
Legolas or Galadriel
Gildors house
the Battlehost
Galadhrim court guards with the enchanted cloaks fate.


Now, my problem is that isenguard has focused his army on killing my setup, no archers means he doesn't have to worry about my cloaks, and he uses a large formation of uruks full of his casters to splat me. The way we have been reading cloaks is that they stop you shooting at them from greater than 12" but have no effect vs magic, which I think is stupid!

Can someone clarify this rule for me, and help me build a nice killer army?
I was considering going High Elves, taking along Gandalf etc. I love using bows and the skirmishing idea of an Elven army, but I fear it just won't work against a magic spam. I love using magic too, I hate entering a fight with less than 5 mastery.

So my big problems are:
killing Saruman and his other heroes before they screw up my entire army, I feel an epic duel might do it, but it's getting to them that will be the problem, as any formation that tries it will inevitably end up dead.
Against MM, it's sheer numbers, I can't kill 200 companies of goblins, with wargs and more goblins appearing every turn at my flanks.

Hi Naresh, the bad news is that I'd rate the Elven list as the most difficult in the game to play with (see here: http://roughwotr.blogspot.com/2011/08/w ... elves.html ) and you are always up against it.

There was talk of a truly awful bunker unit, made up by putting two Counselors with Radagast (who uses Epic Tranquility each round) then lots of Epic Shot Heroes. So the unit prevents charges, uses Epic Defense to reduce the casualties they take from shooting and uses command spells to heal. Then the army does damage by firing of heaps of Epic Shots. However, counters exist vs that and it isn't exactly what looks like a fun game of toy soldiers (well more than once anyway,)

For the Elves, I would be suggesting:
Spell casting Galadriel
Radagast or Gandalf or Thranduil (at 1500pts)
Cirdan
Elladan + Elrohir
Possibly Haldir.
Then focus on core troops - Galadrim with Shields.
Some Mirkwood Sentinels to shoot, provide a screen, and charge flanks to try and drop enemy strength.
The High-Elven Cohort with Commander is also well worthwhile.

You would be relying on:
1. Galadriel (and maybe Gandalf) to provide might to other heroes. Even the 35pt twin is fearsome in combat with extra might and Epic Strike and you want to be using your heroic fights etc to get the most damage output for the least hits back.
2. You need to to get enemy courage down on a target unit then gang up on it. Both Terror and Enrapturing Song work off courage.
3. You are an army that wants to go second to help with this, at 1500 the Palantir wouldn't be the craziest idea out there. You can still get first charges off using might and remember twins can do this with two units from a single might point.
4. Don't give the initiative to your enemy. They will probably work out how much easier their life will be using shooting once you start to beat them up in close combat and I would be thankful that your opponent is leaving off the xbow.... for now. You want to be stuck in too, but on your terms and with magic used to give your abilities a chance to win. Think of yourselves as foot cavalry, fast, fragile, and wanting to hit flanks where you can. Always keep an eye on where your Epic are and keep them hopping about, you want to both make sure you are getting best value each turn and make it harder for your opponent to plan - and see point 3 again

You can kill goblins all day, just use troops with shields (he isn't proxying black-shields, is he? That'd just make the points imbalance inherent in using Elves even worse!) and heroic fight. The worst of it is Saruman and Druzhag because both of them can hit you at range and that is the hardest thing to mitigate. Elves can't really soak up hits like other armies can. THe best advice I can give is to get them if you can but this is always difficult vs a competent player. I hate those guys.

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http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com

Thanks,

I'm currently looking at:
Gandalf
Three Hunters
Celeborn
Galadriel
Elladan and Elrohir
Lothlorien Warhost
As the core of my force, Galadriel and Gandalf will provide the might necessary to keep the pressure on Saruman and Druzhag with epic combats while I have some competent casters to neutralise some other threats. The warhost gives me a +1 to will of iron rolls. I feel that in itself is worth the 75 points cost.

We play 1500 points.

Army wise, I'm pretty limited,
All galadhrim regiments will soak up my points, and I don't know how much I'll have left.

A bit more info on Isenguard:
He likes using 4 strong companies to a formation.
His latest force includes Vrashus Talons and sappers AND a ballista!

EDIT: just did a quick points cost tally, using the bare minimum formations / companies, talking the extra heroes Elladan, Elrohir, Gandalf and three hunters, leaves me with 25 spare points...

Emm does your frient use allies limits or not?
Anyway the three hutners can be very useful to kill enemy monsters...
As I have seen you have a lot of might...
A strong disadvantage of your opponent's army is his sappers...
You can turn them against himb y killing them and making them explode while they are on his and not your lines...(Elven bows will do it...)
Also as you know elves cause terror and as the enemies have low courage and with Galadriel's amgic you can reduce it even more so that you cna charge him...
I hope this advice will help you...

I know about the terror

The problem is, with the battle host, I only have 3 regiments of archers, and he has some 4 companies of sappers.

Yeah, ally limits are used, 25% of the army. 375 points, plenty for Druzhag and Kardush.

He doesn't use trolls, so the monsters are out.

The problem is the magic, there is no easy way to neutralise magic, he can blast me with 6+ spells of ruin a turn, and I'm left with a smouldering hole in the center of my army.

Maybe instead of the battlehost to use normal formations and more bows!

_________________
"The stars are veiled.Something stirs in the East. A sleepless malice."-Legolas, The Return of the King

Valid point, but if I do that, I'm going to end up circling back to a skirmisher army...
The battle host gives me an impressive +1 to iron will throws, which, against 3 casters is almost needed, and well worth the 75 points on its own in my opinion.

Let me throw out another idea:

We take Celeborn, Galadriel, the twins, three hunters and Gandalf, this on its own is 795 points (check my maths... unsure on this) a decent 1/2 of my army on heroes.

that seems a little high on what will eventually end up as me having less than 15 companies for my army at 45-55 a pop for the troops

EDIT: I did consider Haldirs archers battlehost...
Now Haldirs Elves are good, but not epically so, Haldir on his own is a nice choice
Legolas? Isenguard player doesn't use trolls, so he effectively becomes useless, attacking as cavalry is nice, but worth 200 points?

4 formations of 3 companies of archers is 150x4
600 points + 50 for the host itself.
Now I don't think this is a bad cost, and it looks like a great little starter for an army.
Is Haldir 75 points? that's 725 points on an archer army that has no magic... yet.


With the final 775 points, I'd take Galadriel and the twins, leaving me with 630.
From this I'd take 2 formations of 3 companies of galadhrim with shields, so 300 points.
330 left...

Would Lothlorien longbows be an idea? Strength 3 bows sounds like a good plan, shame I can only take this once.
255 points...
3 companies of knights with shields for 165
Leaving me with 90

Enough points for a flanking force of 2 galadhrim regiments.

Granted... low on magic, highly dependent on bowfire which will have little - no effect on shielded uruks in 4 company strong formations...
but the rerolling to hit uruks in the shoot phase makes me consider dropping the knights for additional companies of Elves.

I could turn those 3 companies into another 3 archer companies with 15 points left over.

Having to take Battlehosts is harsh for Elves - you pay enough points for your troops as it is. We actually play Will of Iron as a 3+ as a default. Without that, the boost makes sense, since you do need to be able to stop key spells.

Relying on bows vs Uruks is never going to end well. I think the base of troops you have in that post after mine is good but I would leave off the Three Hunters. They are a good formation but you need more troops. Having Celeborn and Gandalf does mean you can really go to town on enemy courage, which you need to to handle Isengard's Inspiring Leader with courage 6.

_________________
http://www.roughwotr.blogspot.com