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Question about king's champion and broken heroes
http://wap.one-ring.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=26959		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  pownrwhopowns [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Question about king's champion and broken heroes
So 2 questions about king's champion
when he is with his heralds in base to base contact but they are in separate fights and one of them loses the fight and gets pushed back before the others fight, then do the others lose the +1 (+2) defense bonus even though at the end of the move phase they were in base to base contact?
Also, can they benefit from their own banners? ex: can a herald re-roll from his own banner?

On another note, does anyone know how to deal with 7 fight value heroes like boromir of the white tower with his banner or glorfindel with his armor?
If people can give me ideas for how to deal with them with both dwarves and haradrim respectively (my two best armies), I would really appreciate it.
Author:  JamesR [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
First off I'd like to say it's nice to find someone else who plays both Dwarves and Harad as their "mains".

For the King's Champion, Yes they lose their defense bonus as they are no longer in base contact, that's why priority is so important. You decide the order of the fights.

As to the banner bearer benefiting from his own re-roll, I believe he does as well. Although that will seldom be needed as there are 2 banner bearers.

As to fight 7 heroes (who I don't think are broken at all), heroic strikes are your best friend. You can either beat their FV or force them to expend might to tie/beat your increased FV. Lots of players will overreact to your heroic strikes so try and bait them into it.

For Harad use Chieftains for these heroic duels and keep a task master nearby to potentially make your heroic action free. Also don't be shy with sending in some Cav (accompanied by a hero) to try and knock them down and lance them, double strikes with the +1 is a beautiful thing.
I'd also highly recommend taking a Hasharin for his bane of kings poison, just don't leave him alone against one of the aforementioned heroes as he should survive but it's not a fight he can easily win.

For the Dwarves I'd recommend Durin against them. Absolute TANK, enemies will throw their best punches and he'll simply reply "Thank you sir, I'll have another".
His axe with the re-roll and +1 to wound make him an excellent counter to other heroes. And with his D9 he's unlikely to take much damage in combat either
Author:  SuicidalMarsbar [ Sat Dec 07, 2013 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
The only broken models in the game are shades and wraiths on fellbeasts. You're problem with Glorf and Boromir is probably that you are:
A; Swarming them with troops
B: Sending sub par heroes to take them out
C: Not using magic against them
D: Not shooting their mounts
Author:  pownrwhopowns [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
Thanks a lot James, I had no idea about heroic strike. that helps a lot!
Author:  VictoryGin [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 4:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
If you are having trouble with the enemy hero mounted, use panic steed on them.

Otherwise, keep your models away from them; don't let them earn their points cost!

VG
Author:  Denizen [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 11:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
@SuicidalMarsbar: I find Azog on White Warg pretty broken too.

A Monster can help you a lot. One Rend is sometimes enough to take a big hero down. Or you could get close and make sure you Hurl a weakling straight to his combat (but only knock the opponent down ofcourse).

Magic does the trick too.

In order to make Durin even stronger: give him a banner and spear support. Gives him 6 attacks to win the combat :-D
Author:  cereal_theif [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 1:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
There are literally NO broken profiles (excluding the new profiles which I cannot vouch for yet)

The nearest thing to broken is a double shade army but even then you can smash it with the right tactic and mindset.

The phrase broken does not really apply to games under 1000pts for any lotr or hobbit army either. There are some bad armies but no stand out great army.

Elven heroes n Boromir. Magic helps, but feed them one guy or swamp them. Nothing in between. Make it VITAL they win each fight and when they are start to run out of might then get your heroes in.
Author:  JamesR [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 2:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
Denizen wrote:
@SuicidalMarsbar: I find Azog on White Warg pretty broken too.

A Monster can help you a lot. One Rend is sometimes enough to take a big hero down. Or you could get close and make sure you Hurl a weakling straight to his combat (but only knock the opponent down ofcourse).

Magic does the trick too.

In order to make Durin even stronger: give him a banner and spear support. Gives him 6 attacks to win the combat :-D


Dain can benefit from a banner? I always thought that his re-roll negated any use for a banner for him
Author:  Denizen [ Sun Dec 08, 2013 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
JamesR wrote:
Denizen wrote:
(...)
In order to make Durin even stronger: give him a banner and spear support. Gives him 6 attacks to win the combat :-D


Dain can benefit from a banner? I always thought that his re-roll negated any use for a banner for him

I was talking about Durin? :)

Since his rule says he can re-roll a dice, NOT that he counts as being in range of a banner, I see no reason why it wouldn't work. You just can't re-roll the same dice twice. And the dice re-roll of his axe cannot be used to re-roll the dice from his spear support.

cereal_theif wrote:
The nearest thing to broken is a double shade army but even then you can smash it with the right tactic and mindset.

How about 20+ Reavers, 20+ Orcs spear, DM on Fellbeast and Shade (700pts)? Those Reavers have a 92% chance to win combat against lower fight units. You can't kill if you don't win any combats.
Author:  Draugluin [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
Well, since that isn't a legal army with warbands, you can't use that. Durin and 49 Khazad Guards would be able to easily beat that list.
Author:  Coenus Scaldingus [ Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
That could easily be a warband-legal list: just add the two required Harad/Umbar heroes, for which there are points available (DM on fellbeast + Shade + 21 Orcs w spear + 21 Reavers adds up to 606 pts).

Although that's not really relevant here.
Author:  Zarathustra Suicuine [ Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Question about king's champion and broken heroes
Must admit, someone who uses the king's champion asking for help against "broken" heroes is quite funny :P
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